All hell broke loose yesterday—and I do mean “all hell,” because two of the most evil men in recent history, once allies, went to war. Or, as AOC phrased it: “The girls are fighting, aren’t they?”
The Big Beautiful Bill turned into a Big Beautiful Brawl, with convicted felon Donald Trump trading barbs with (alleged) illegal immigrant Elon Musk. I mean, these are some haymakers:
But what does it all mean? Why it this happening now? Is it possible these two face-eating leopards will eat each other’s faces? And if so, what channel is it on, because I want to watch!
Last night, to talk this out, I took to the Substack livestream. I suggested a few theories on why this might be happening. And then my friend, the indefatigable Gal Suburban, joined me, offering insights that had not even occurred to me.
Here is the transcript, edited for clarity and abridged:
GREG:
This is a strange occurrence, and that’s what I want to discuss, because it’s just kind of weird, right? Like, these guys were joined at the hip, really joined at the hip, since what, October? Whenever it was that Musk decided, “Hey, I’m going to help Trumpy win the election.”
And he’s been there every step of the way, doing the whole DOGE thing. He’s gotten all the stuff that he wants, to the point where Trump is literally out there lobbying on his behalf for foreign governments to buy Starlink—which is, I mean, what more do you want if you’re Musk, right?
And then, suddenly, now, there’s this weird fight, this quarrel about the silliest thing, this bill—does it affect Elon Musk at all? The bill? It seems like a weird thing for him to come out about. Like, it’s probably not going to pass anyway. Musk said something the other day: “A bill can be beautiful and it can be big, but it can’t be beautiful and big.” Words of wisdom—really just mind-blowing words there from Elon Musk, such a poet, right? He’s a South African poet laureate. He said that and then things escalated from there, and here we are.
So I’m just trying to figure out what to make of this.
But let’s not forget that Elon Musk is a horrible monster, that he ruined Twitter intentionally—which I predicted, and I’m bad at predicting things. The day he took over, I wrote what he would do, and he did all the things I said he would do. And the only way that I knew that that was going to happen is because I knew that he was there to destroy it. I operated under the assumption that he was there to destroy it, which he was and which he did.
Then, you go through the election, Trump is getting his ass kicked by Kamala. He’s to the point where he’s—remember?—he’s in the orange vest and he’s driving the garbage truck. I mean, I almost felt bad for him. Really. He basically stopped campaigning and he was saying things like, “You don’t even need to bother voting.” And then he’s in these very small venues—it got increasingly more Spinal Tap, right?
And then Musk shows up in Pennsylvania and moves there with all of his stuff, his whole operation. And that was it. And then suddenly, boom, Trump wins. Now, you know, there’s plenty of data suggesting everything’s fine, the results were accurate. But there’s no question that Musk helped him win the election, right? There’s no question that that seems to be the case. Not even to hint at anything illegal, just that Musk threw all of his weight behind helping Donald Trump get elected.
And then once elected, Donald Trump has proceeded to try to destroy NATO, which has given is a Pax Americana since 1945—or 1949, guess, was when NATO came into being. But since the end of World War II, basically. So he did all of this stuff, right? Put horrible, horrible people into the cabinet, like really bad people into the cabinet—all of the cabinet people deployed to destroy whatever department they headed. And Musk’s role in that, Musk’s role is to kind of operate across the entire cabinet, you know, all of the departments. So whether it’s the Department of Energy, Education, Treasury, whatever, the CIA, there goes Musk with his DOGE to kill it all, right? Using the excuse of efficiency, as if, first of all, as if government isn’t efficient as it is. And secondly, there’s a thing in the military where redundancy is actually good. And I feel like in the federal government, redundancy is also good. It’s not a bad thing to have. It’s not a business. The government isn’t a business, and it shouldn’t be run like one.
So, you know, just killing USAID, which Musk did almost single-handedly, with this guy, Marocco, Pete Marocco, another guy with blood on his hands. A study at Boston University suggested 300,000 people are already dead, starved to death, a lot of them children. And if these things continue, if the United States continues to withhold aid, 25 million people will die over the next 15 years—that was a study by Nature magazine. That’s just because of the aid being denied. Preventable deaths! So this is bad. Musk and Trump have blood on their hands, and this is all very serious. You know, life-and-death serious, and we can’t ever forget that.
So that’s my preamble.
But having said all that…man, this is fun. It’s fun to watch these two assholes duke it out. Isn’t it? Many, many people on the interwebs have made the, “It’s like Kendrick versus Drake, but with two Drakes” joke. And that joke is especially funny because, if you’re familiar with “Not Like Us,” the song that was really the nuclear bomb that Kendrick dropped to end Drake, that was all about Kendrick accusing Drake explicitly of being a pedophile. He says in the song, “We’re gonna strike a chord and I think it’s A minor.” And then he holds it out, “Minuuuuurrrrrrrrr,” until you get what he’s talking about. So that’s perfect. Everybody who tweeted that, God bless you.
There’s lots of other funny things on there. It’s delightful. I’m enjoying it. I’m not gonna lie. I hope both of them are angry and frustrated and miserable. I hope that all the time.
Now, I do have some theories. Let’s just try to break this down. Because again, I don’t know why this is happening. I have five possible theories.
The first theory: he’s sincere. Musk just clued in—maybe he’s not high on ketamine today, and he realized what was happening, and he was like, “Wait a minute, this bill is terrible for people!” And he really is legitimately mad at the bill, and mad at the people who voted for the bill without reading it. I find that unlikely, but it’s possible. We have to give him the benefit of the doubt. We don’t have to—we don’t have to give him anything—but it’s definitely a possibility.
Number two: it’s a distraction. Lots of other stuff going on today, as always, and all anyone is talking about is this, including on the front page of the New York Times. Certainly there’s things happening in Ukraine right now, in the war there that nobody’s going to pay attention to because of this. Certainly there’s things happening in Gaza. There’s things happening with abortion under attack all across the country on the federal level, with the judges’ rulings and stuff like that. There’s lots of things going on that are bad. So: distraction? Maybe. I mean, most of what they do is performative. These guys are very performative, but…but this feels...like it’s sustained itself too long to be fake.
Number three. This was the kind of the weirdest tweet. Musk has tweeted out a lot of things about Epstein. I don’t care. I mean, who doesn’t know that Trump is in the Epstein files? Like, why would anyone not know that? It’s so silly. Like, how could you possibly not know that? So I don’t think that’s anything. But I found this quote from the New York Times. I know Musk put it on Twitter, but this is in the New York Times story. Musk tweets: “Without me, Trump would have lost the election. Dems would control the house and the Republicans would be 51-49 in the Senate.” That seems very specific. And I wonder there if there’s some sort of threat involved, if this is a threat to reveal more along those lines. I’m not saying there is anything more to reveal. I’m just saying that maybe it’s a threat.
So maybe it’s a threat. It’s basically like, “I want you to do us a favor though.” It’s the same kind of tactic as “I want you to do us a favor though.” Possibly. I’m not saying it is. I’m only just saying you could easily read that as a threat.
Number four: Musk has been through the ringer so badly and his own personal brand, his mythology, has been completely destroyed. Who still thinks that he’s a genius at this point? Who believes anything that he says at this point? I mean, it’s rare that you find somebody do a 180 like this in public approval without committing a major crime or something. Like, this is a bad fall from grace for this guy who not that long ago was revered by people. Everyone thought he was a genius. Walter Isaacson wrote a whole book about him. Blah, blah, blah. Now, his companies are in the toilet, he’s losing money, everyone thinks he’s an asshole and an idiot and a racist, which, he is all of those things. And he doesn’t like it. And now, what is he gonna do about it? Well, here’s this bill. The bill sucks. Everyone hates the bill. As soon as any U.S. citizen realizes what’s in the bill, they’re gonna hate the bill and hate everybody who voted for the bill.
So what does Musk do? He sees this, or someone who he’s paying for crisis PR sees this, and says, “Hey, Elmo, why don’t you come out against this bill? That’ll make you seem like you’re being heroic, when in fact you’re just saying it to get back into the good graces of the people.” That makes a little bit of sense, right? Maybe a tiny little bit of sense.
And then the last reason that I can think of is that none of them want the bill. They know that the bill is bad. They know the bill is stupid. They’re starting to freak out about it. Even Marjorie Taylor Greene’s starting to freak out about it. So Musk comes out against it. That gives cover for the Republicans in the Senate to not vote for it.
And it gives cover for Trump to go the same way, if that’s what he wanted to do. Now, why they would do that? I don’t know. It seems like this is a good bill for the billionaires. I don’t know. I didn’t read the bill. I know the bill sucks. I know it’s got really bad stuff in it. Maybe they decided that this is too much or too soon, or we’re going to try another tactic. That’s the only thing I can think of. The only thing I can think of.
Those are the theories that I have. Oh wait, there is one more. One more is: he’s totally fucking high. He’s been high. He’s been on this bender for the last week and he’s just so out of it that he’s hitting it at Trump. But I don’t think that’s true either. I think his tweets seem very lucid actually lately, especially for him. . . .
And now, Gal Suburban joins the chat:
GAL:
Hi, I’m here! I had to run into my garage because I’m in a tornado warning. So I’m in my car talking to you. I was trying to figure out where to go.
GREG:
No, this is good because I’m done talking. I want to know what you think because I have some theories. I don’t know how many of my theories you heard. And I wonder what you think if any of those theories have any legs.
I summarize the aforementioned theories.
GAL:
Well, definitely the last one—but almost a combination. These guys don’t think that far ahead, right? I feel like things come up and they find ways to take advantage of all of the little alliances they’ve created, or stories they’ve already seeded. And so, I think that the spat is legitimate. It’s just a matter of who’s going to be able to leverage the context of it for their own advantage. Is Elon attempting to push out Trump to create a JD Vance technocracy situation? Is this a time that he thinks that “We should strike on this?”
GREG:
He did suggest that. He did suggest that in one of the tweets. He did say, let’s impeach him and get Vance in there. He explicitly said it. Or what’s that guy, Ian Miles Cheong, the Malaysian guy? I think he wrote it and Elon did his “100 %” quote-tweet.
GAL:
Yeah, I mean, haven’t watched too much of it. I know they’ve been going back and forth on Twitter, but, you know, I don’t think it’s kayfabe. I know that there’s a lot of people that want to believe that this is just them playing games and creating a distraction. And I actually don’t believe that.
I think that they genuinely are unaligned, ideologically. And I feel like it’s always been this insurgency within the Republican party. And I think it’s just beginning to make its moves. And I think this is part of it. I think this is part of one of their moves. It’s, you know, a coup from the inside. And we’ll see how the tech bros leverage this. That bill is in the Senate, so I think that’s where to watch how this plays out.
GREG:
I think that’s a good theory, actually. I think that’s better than any of my theories. See, this is why we have you on, Gal, because you have good theories. That does make sense. Yeah, because we, in talking about this in the lead up to inauguration, we thought that at some point they were going to move Trump aside. Maybe now is the moment.
Do you think that the bill was itself designed to do this? Was it designed, do you think, as a way to screw Trump over and put him in this position where he’s now saddled with something unpopular? I don’t know.
GAL:
I don’t think they’re that smart. I think sometimes we give them too much credit for thinking that far in advance. I think they’re more impulsive. And I think that they actually operate better in chaos. And so these are the moments where if we don’t insert some chaos ourselves, they’ll take advantage of all of it, right?
So my current chaos that I would insert to play with them is that it’s a coup against Trump. Because that’s our best outcome here is that their infighting creates such a massive break that some of those DOGE employees get canned. Cause we need them out.
GREG:
I’d love to see him start firing all of Elon’s people. Go back to high school!
GAL:
I think we should use it to our advantage, but I think they operate well in chaos. And I don’t think they plan too far out as far as anything really, because they’re able to move through that environment so quickly, and they have such a grasp on the narrative. They’re able to steer it. And like I said, they’ve been planting all kinds of narratives that nobody notices until it’s necessary. They could plant five different things a year ago, and only one will be needed today for them to pull back up and use it to their advantage. They’ve been priming their base for so long, with so many things— like that Epstein stuff.
GREG:
That part is very funny to me because, I mean, how can you not know that Trump is in the Epstein files? Like it’s so obvious, do they really not know?
GAL:
They think that he was like, you know, a secret agent, and he was there to—like he was actually, you know, collecting data on Epstein.
I take a sip of water and almost spit-take imagining Trump being capable of data collection.
GREG:
Trump collecting data. Ha!
GAL:
I mean, Elon’s out there saying this, too, but he’s got pictures with Ghislaine Maxwell, and then yesterday the New York Times put out that big piece about Peter Thiel and his taking lots of investments from Epstein, you know, money for startups and things. So, you know, it’s just a big cut. Can I say “circle jerk?”
GREG:
You can. Absolutely.
GAL:
I feel like that’s all it is. But I think the rift is real. Trump is pissed that he’s talking crap about his bill. I think Elon is like, “Dude, I just lost so much money trying to do all of this stuff and you don’t appreciate it. I basically, I got you elected and now you’re going to fire me and give me a fucking key.”
His parting gift was a key. He got like a fancy golden key to the White House.
GREG:
Isn’t that nice. Is it real gold or is it just spray painted?
So I have a question for you. So what do you think—because I think that Thiel and Musk are not in the same camp. I’ve been reading about Palantir, I’ve been reading about Thiel, because I’m going to write about that at some point. I haven’t really looked into it as much. Thiel is way more into things than Musk is, I think.
GAL:
I think he’s far more politically sophisticated.
GREG:
Yeah—and has been for years, including with the intelligence services, which I don’t know that Musk is, you know, on that level.
GAL:
Musk has quite a bit in the DoD with Starlink and some other things, but definitely Palantir is far more saturated in the intelligence gathering and data collection. But I mean, if we think about how Musk was able to get inside of the institutions, pull data, and now all of sudden Palantir is going to be compiling that data into massive databases. I mean, I feel like maybe they’re not friends, or they’re not necessarily, but they’ll benefit each other either way.
GREG:
I just feel like if this was the Lufthansa heist from Goodfellas, Musk’s not gonna be one of the guys at the end who’s still with us. He’s gonna be in a mink coat in the freezer or something
GAL:
No, that’s true. He does too many drugs.
GREG:
As we wind down, is there anything else that you want to say or that you might think theory-wise about this rift or what it might portend?
GAL:
I’d like to know where Putin is on it. I’m curious, because I feel like we know that Elon Musk had conversations with Putin. We know that he shut off Starlink in Ukraine to benefit the Russian military, their fleet in the Black Sea and things like that so that the Ukrainians couldn’t strike. I just wonder who does Putin side with in this battle of, you know, idiots. That’ll be an interesting thing to watch also. My money is on Elon Musk with Putin. And if Putin is done with Trump, that might get interesting for us here.
GREG:
Yeah, that’s a good question. Because then I really do hope, just as closure, that we do get the pee-pee tape. I would like that to end the thing. I think that’s the way it should end. I think it should end that way. I think Christopher Steele should be like, “I told you fuckers,” and that’s how it should end.
GAL:
His book was great, by the way.
GREG:
Mm-hmm. Great, I loved it. It was such a bracing dose of un-gaslight.
GAL:
Yeah. Yeah.
I’ll be interested because I don’t know how much influence the Yarvin side of the, you know, Thiel thing—I don’t really know how much Musk has soaked in that, all that ideology. I feel like he’s more of just somebody they have used. He’s almost like Mike Lindell to me. You know what I’m saying? Musk is like the 2025 Mike Lindell, you know, the “they stole the election” guy. Like, they’re just using up all his money and his political capital while they can until they gas him out.
But then again, he has Twitter, and so it’s really interesting. It’s fun. I mean, if I’m going to enjoy anything, it’s going to be this. This has been a terrible year for humanity. So if I can watch the people creating the suffering suffer themselves, I’m gonna thoroughly enjoy it while it lasts.
GREG:
We should all enjoy it.
Did you see the tweet? Did you see the tweet where Musk said that Trump will only be president for another three and half years, but he’ll be alive for another 40 plus? I was like, I’m taking the under—on both things, honestly.
GAL:
Yeah, yeah, I don’t expect Musk to survive life on Earth much longer, frankly. He does a lot of drugs. It’s very clear he’s, you know, he’s in serious…
GREG:
If the New York Times writes an article like that about your drug use, that’s really bad, because they wouldn’t do that unless it was so awful and it was sourced by so many different people that it was just, you know.
GAL:
I think that’s a Susie Wiles hit piece. Which is why I think you saw Laura Loomer in there—they’re trying to oust Susie Wiles now. So I think you can start seeing the insurgents inside this versus like the ones who are just the MAGA Trump people. . . They’re very mad at Susie Wiles. And I think we’ll find out eventually that Susie had something to do with Elon’s ousting.
GREG:
Yeah. I think you’re right. That’s a good point. And I think in this battle, I said it before, but my money’s on Trump ultimately in the battle, in the Musk-Trump battle, only because first of all, he is the president, which is not un-powerful. And also he’s a criminal. He’s grown up with criminals. He knows how to do crime. Musk is a lot of things, but he’s not hard in that way, I don’t think. He’s just not.
I’m so glad that you were able to come on. This is fun.
GAL:
Sorry it took me so long—I was trying to figure it out, and then we had a tornado warning.
GREG:
No, it’s good. Because I got all my garbage out and then you came in and said things that I didn’t even think of. It’s solid content. Thank you for coming on and thank you everybody for watching.
This has worked, this thing. I’ve never done this before on my own account other than...like, a few weeks ago, I tried to do a livestream to get people to the YouTube show, and it wound up just being me staring at my computer and nobody could hear anything and it was like the dumbest thing ever. This is actual useful content!
GAL:
And I love chatting with you. So thanks for calling me and having me on.
Watch me and LB tonight on The Five 8 at 8pm ET:
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