Another unspoken but obvious unintended consequence (everything you cited in your piece is an INTENDED consequence) of red state ideologues writing laws governing reproductive biology - doctors who fail to treat women who are miscarrying or have an ectopic pregnancy knowing that those women will get very much sicker and may die because the well known and proven treatments are withheld can and will be sued for malpractice by injured patients and/or grieving families. And they will lose. All the plaintiff has to do is show that known, proven treatment was withheld and its game over. And how many medical professionals can afford the financial burden of higher malpractice insurance premiums...and the stigma that they let their patients die?
Jul 19, 2022·edited Jul 19, 2022Liked by Greg Olear
Practicing medicine without a license? Here is one comment off a WaPo article: "Well, here's a thought. Every state -- for good reason -- makes it a felony to practice medicine without a license. And none of those laws allow an exception simply because someone got themselves elected to public office. So, if you're using your authority to determine what procedures and medications doctors are allowed to use, that pretty clearly crosses the line into 'practicing medicine.'
"So, if a woman dies because one of these laws caused confusion or barred timely treatment, the governor and legislators who sponsored these laws should be liable for manslaughter. Any legislator who is not a medical doctor who voted for these laws should be charged as an accessory to manslaughter."
I "like" this article because it gets into the down and dirty about what a woman's body is going through when she experiences an "untoward" pregnancy: embryos that attach to fallopian tubes (sorry but the FTs are too small to house a fetus); women who bleed out for several days; a molar pregnancy that occurs when there is an extra set of paternal chromosomes in a fertilized egg. This error at the time of conception transforms normal placental tissue into a growing cystic mass. The developing tumor quickly overcomes the embryo. This condition is not detected within a six-week timeframe). And it goes on...
True, but it will be hard for them to continue to treat Justice Kegstand and the other Christo-fascists as the victims as the stories of women becoming seriously ill and dying pile up. Look at how quickly the corporate media jumped on the f'kery of the right wing media as they denied the truth of the 10 yr old rape victim story.
The Alitocrats—all Trump toadies—have already decided. It’s the rest of us who must decide. They say history repeats, but it doesn’t. People repeat. They never change. At this moment, a vast number of Americans ignorant of religious wars that have brutalized human society for thousands of years are pushing for a return to the pseudo-Catholic Spanish Inquisition, and pushing the same agenda as Torquemada: consolidate power to make themselves feel better about their the ED of their tiny dicks. Love your writing Greg. Will write you into my will, if we still have a nation that recognizes such law.
Thanks, John. We are indeed spoiled in this country, especially those of us 50 or younger, who never had a Vietnam to contend with. This is such a historical anomaly. What the Court is doing is a correction, back to the horrible status quo of history.
There will always be wills, because rich assholes have to make sure of their legacies. Fun fact: most of British property law derives from the Black Death, which wiped out multiple generations in a few days, and necessitated, in certain extreme circumstances, that women had to inherit property!
I need to understand how Republicans and their allies are now saying they want a national ban AT SIX or maybe fifteen weeks of pregnancy. First, they said “life begins at conception” then they said “let the states decide”. And NOW they want a national ban at 6 or 15 weeks.
So, which is it? Is a zygote a baby? Do the states get to have self determination and let their voters decide what’s best for them? Or was this really all just a bunch of bullshit for control over women and our bodies? (Obviously the last)
It’s me we start calling this hypocrisy out. The national forced birth organizations are freaking out about the backlash to everything you laid out in your piece. They want Republicans to tone their rhetoric down. So, when these ghouls start toning it down to get elected, it’s OUR JOB to make sure we are throwing it in their face every day that once their in office, they WILL do all the things they once said they’d do, regardless of what they’re saying to *broaden their appeal* to win a race.
Thanks, Kate. There is no internal logic. It's like trying to codify the Santa Claus story. It's a waste of intellectual energy to find one, or to point out the obvious hypocrisy. Today's strike three is tomorrow's ball four, until the court is expanded.
And extrapolating on SCOTUS’ stance on constitutional originality, women and POC did not have a right to vote (and at one time only land owners could vote). Is this where they are taking us? Because if not, Dobbs makes no sense even for the morons in the judiciary.
In a democracy the ballot is supposed to be the ultimate answer bcuz we ourselves are responsible for the quality of our Representatives. Alito punted to the 1st Branch, and sadly the Constitution defaults to States as the so-called "laboratories of democracy"
Greg, I agree with all you wrote here. A sad state of affairs. I want to add something to this conversation. 18 years ago I gave birth to my oldest daughter - an absolute joy! However, that pregnancy and my second pregnancy took such a toll on my body that an Autoimmune Disease was activated. It took me 9 years to get a partial diagnosis. I went to doctor after doctor and was basically told it was all in my head. "Of course you're tired, you have two small children" - "But this is different, I feel like there is more to it than just being tired" Finally, I found a Doctor that recognized my condition and we have been working together for the last 7 years to find an appropriate treatment. She works with me, there are many conversations between us and she is willing to try different medications that I research. She works WITH me. I am the expert on my body - I know what I need. Nobody else does. Pregnancy can be very hard on a woman's body and bring about physical changes that cannot be anticipated. Add that to the toll on the medical community and humanity.
Thanks for sharing this, Gail. I'm glad you found a good doctor who has worked with you.
And yes, pregnancy is a black box...you really have no idea what will happen. Ultimately, as Elie Mystal argues in his book, forced birth is involuntary servitude, which would be protected under the 13th Amendment. You know, if Alito was smart enough to grasp the basic concept.
Yes, I want to emphasize that I am one of the fortunate one's who had the financial and emotional support to find a diagnosis. It has been an entirely consuming experience. If I was a single mother with multiple kids and living at the poverty level, I doubt I would have ever found out. I still pay hundreds of dollars every month to treat my condition. I am doing very well now but if I couldn't obtain the healthcare I require, I would be a drain on society and my family. Who knows where I would be? Alito lacks the essential human elements called EMPAHTY and COMPASSION. He is not able to think "outside of the (his) box" and that is the real danger of anyone in a position of power. And GREED.
"Why on God’s green earth would a responsible government insist on producing unwanted humans?"
Well, that's a rhetorical question, right? We've been a supremely IRresponsible government since we had the stupid idea to put Ronald Reagan in the White House. Cut this, cut that, take out the Fairness Doctrine, don't even mention AIDS for seven fucking years -- in the 80s! Then we went to Pappy Bush and his war, followed by Clinton and his intern who no one REALLY cared about except that the affair was more fodder for the religious right. Then Sonny Bush and HIS war that was completely in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. Obama gave us the ACA, but didn't pull us out of Bush's war, even after the "mission" was actually accomplished, that being bin Laden's body at the bottom of the ocean (allegedly -- yeah, I said it!). Oh yeah, and codifying Roe just wasn't a big priority. Trump. "Call me irresponsible," indeed.
Republicans will continue their tyranny of the minority until the electorate in this country wakes the fuck up. Every day I hear people saying stupid shit like "I voted for Democrats and they don't do anything". It makes me want to start slapping people. This isn't rocket science. Except for a few minutes in the 111th Congress (2009-10) Republicans have controlled Congress since 1995. For Democrats to pass legislation they need 60 votes in the Senate. Republicans, being the anti-government party, need 41! When legislation fails they win! The problem is, how do you teach 150 million American voters how this works? (Sorry about the rant...).
Hmm. To be quite accurate it was Roe v Wade that removed American democracy, i.e., the representatives elected by the people, from making determinations about abortion. It was in Roe V. Wade that 7 judges, feeling omnipotent, “discovered” – confabulated a “constitutional right” that was not merely not known to the Founders but unknown to anyone between 1789 and 1973. Raw judicial power as Justice White called it.
NOTE: Far from prohibiting abortion, Dobbs merely returns abortion to the DEMOCRATIC arena where all you fine little pretend “DEMOCRATS” are going to lose fair and square – which is precisely why you’re howling so much.
“The religious right is trying to bulldoze the separation of church and state.”
Separation of Church and State is a dream of the Left - but does not happen to be mentioned anywhere in the US Constitution. Btw, nearly all of our criminal law obviously derives from the moral law - from “religion” - no more and no less than statutes prohibiting abortion.
“We are on the verge of sliding into a form of fascism that is peculiar to the United States, a government based on the arbitrary and capricious belief system of six radical religious zealots on the Supreme Court who, collectively, represent a small minority of Americans.”
Again, those six zealots merely returned the issue of legalized abortion to the people. If, like you claim, those “zealots” represent a “small minority” of Americans, you’ve got nothing to worry about. Now that you have the Dobbs ruling, you’ll simply win at the ballot box. I can hardly wait - cuz we both know that you fine little advocates of a liberty to kill the unborn are going to get your clocks cleaned. I mean, ain’t that why you’all had to find something like a super-Freemason, something like Justice Blackmun in the first place? Cuz Democracy wasn’t working for you in the late 1960s -early ‘70s? So… along comes Roe in ’73.
We “religious zealots” happen to believe in American representative democracy and in the US Constitution – whereas the American Left no longer does, and hasn’t for a long time – and you aren’t fooling anyone either. The six “religious zealots” must be contrasted with six zealously secular, unelected, life-tenured judges who feel entitled to transform the Supreme Court into a kind of standing – sitting - rolling? – constitutional convention – unlike the legitimate kind of constitutional convention described within… THE CONSTITUTION.
“Life begins at conception: This is the myth that the forced-birth crowd believes.”
Actually, human life does begin at conception. That’s “the science”, bozo. Right outta tenth grade biology. No soul-talk there.
“Once modern medical equipment can detect a heartbeat (we’ll ignore the fact that Jesus wasn’t an ultrasound technician), that fetus is a precious soul who deserves to live, just like you or me. Women who choose to terminate their pregnancies, then, are baby-killers. They may as well rip a fully-formed infant from the womb and smash its still-malleable skull in with a ball-peen hammer. “
In fact, fully formed infants by the thousand were ripped out of wombs by the thousand under the Roe regime – and fine folk like you lost not a moment’s sleep over it. Most of you are closet – or not so closet - infanticide advocates anyway. “Terminate pregnancy” is such a dandy little euphemism.
Our side didn’t bring up souls. You fine folks did. WE said human life is sacred. This, btw is why it’s OK to eat beef, pork, mutton, etc. but cannibalism is a no-no. But many of you say we, “don’t know”, “can’t know”, when human life begins. Yeah – that’s what you say when and only when the subject is abortion. Otherwise, you know as well as anyone else when it begins. Two hunters in the woods. One sees a life form rustling about in the underbrush. He can’t quite tell if it’s a man or a deer. Naturally, he pulls the trigger. Opps, Dead Man. But, not to worry – he’s protected by the constitutional right to kill a human being if and when ya ain’t sure it’s a human being.
“The thing is, there is no non-theocratic justification for a state policy of forced birth.”
There’s no non-theocratic justification for the Ten Commandments. Smith says lying is fine. Jones says it isn’t. So, who’s to say? Eh? However, at a minimum, religious beliefs are not a less constitutional basis for civil law than Godless ones.
They won't be happy until all abortion AND contraception are banned. That means women forced to churn out legions of workers, many low-wage, to keep Republican business leaders happy and rolling in excess profits.
Another unspoken but obvious unintended consequence (everything you cited in your piece is an INTENDED consequence) of red state ideologues writing laws governing reproductive biology - doctors who fail to treat women who are miscarrying or have an ectopic pregnancy knowing that those women will get very much sicker and may die because the well known and proven treatments are withheld can and will be sued for malpractice by injured patients and/or grieving families. And they will lose. All the plaintiff has to do is show that known, proven treatment was withheld and its game over. And how many medical professionals can afford the financial burden of higher malpractice insurance premiums...and the stigma that they let their patients die?
Practicing medicine without a license? Here is one comment off a WaPo article: "Well, here's a thought. Every state -- for good reason -- makes it a felony to practice medicine without a license. And none of those laws allow an exception simply because someone got themselves elected to public office. So, if you're using your authority to determine what procedures and medications doctors are allowed to use, that pretty clearly crosses the line into 'practicing medicine.'
"So, if a woman dies because one of these laws caused confusion or barred timely treatment, the governor and legislators who sponsored these laws should be liable for manslaughter. Any legislator who is not a medical doctor who voted for these laws should be charged as an accessory to manslaughter."
I "like" this article because it gets into the down and dirty about what a woman's body is going through when she experiences an "untoward" pregnancy: embryos that attach to fallopian tubes (sorry but the FTs are too small to house a fetus); women who bleed out for several days; a molar pregnancy that occurs when there is an extra set of paternal chromosomes in a fertilized egg. This error at the time of conception transforms normal placental tissue into a growing cystic mass. The developing tumor quickly overcomes the embryo. This condition is not detected within a six-week timeframe). And it goes on...
Gifted: https://wapo.st/3yUVWYa
Thanks, Lynell. This is a good idea. We have to use the courts to fuck these people. We have to.
Thank you for the article. I like your suggestion about suing these politicians for manslaughter.
Thanks, Peter. Yes, that is all coming, too. A lot of unforeseen consequences. And all the media cares about is Kavanaugh had to skip the tiramisu.
True, but it will be hard for them to continue to treat Justice Kegstand and the other Christo-fascists as the victims as the stories of women becoming seriously ill and dying pile up. Look at how quickly the corporate media jumped on the f'kery of the right wing media as they denied the truth of the 10 yr old rape victim story.
The Alitocrats—all Trump toadies—have already decided. It’s the rest of us who must decide. They say history repeats, but it doesn’t. People repeat. They never change. At this moment, a vast number of Americans ignorant of religious wars that have brutalized human society for thousands of years are pushing for a return to the pseudo-Catholic Spanish Inquisition, and pushing the same agenda as Torquemada: consolidate power to make themselves feel better about their the ED of their tiny dicks. Love your writing Greg. Will write you into my will, if we still have a nation that recognizes such law.
Thanks, John. We are indeed spoiled in this country, especially those of us 50 or younger, who never had a Vietnam to contend with. This is such a historical anomaly. What the Court is doing is a correction, back to the horrible status quo of history.
There will always be wills, because rich assholes have to make sure of their legacies. Fun fact: most of British property law derives from the Black Death, which wiped out multiple generations in a few days, and necessitated, in certain extreme circumstances, that women had to inherit property!
Thank you Greg!
I need to understand how Republicans and their allies are now saying they want a national ban AT SIX or maybe fifteen weeks of pregnancy. First, they said “life begins at conception” then they said “let the states decide”. And NOW they want a national ban at 6 or 15 weeks.
So, which is it? Is a zygote a baby? Do the states get to have self determination and let their voters decide what’s best for them? Or was this really all just a bunch of bullshit for control over women and our bodies? (Obviously the last)
It’s me we start calling this hypocrisy out. The national forced birth organizations are freaking out about the backlash to everything you laid out in your piece. They want Republicans to tone their rhetoric down. So, when these ghouls start toning it down to get elected, it’s OUR JOB to make sure we are throwing it in their face every day that once their in office, they WILL do all the things they once said they’d do, regardless of what they’re saying to *broaden their appeal* to win a race.
Heartily agree, Kate. As I said above, they are practicing medicine without a license to practice medicine!
Thanks, Kate. There is no internal logic. It's like trying to codify the Santa Claus story. It's a waste of intellectual energy to find one, or to point out the obvious hypocrisy. Today's strike three is tomorrow's ball four, until the court is expanded.
I'm shocked that Santa hasn't already been codified...shocked, I tell you!
And extrapolating on SCOTUS’ stance on constitutional originality, women and POC did not have a right to vote (and at one time only land owners could vote). Is this where they are taking us? Because if not, Dobbs makes no sense even for the morons in the judiciary.
Clarence wants to go back to the 1850s. See? It makes zero sense and is a waste of energy to even try to sort it out.
AMEN AMEN AMEN.
Maybe not leeching centers, but I can absolutely see Ginni Thomas opening up a chain of for-profit adoption centers.
🙌
Totally.
Legislation was always the answer. The People need elect some effective Lawmakers so we can at least abolish the *filibuster*
They have to get creative. And I don't know if they are capable.
In a democracy the ballot is supposed to be the ultimate answer bcuz we ourselves are responsible for the quality of our Representatives. Alito punted to the 1st Branch, and sadly the Constitution defaults to States as the so-called "laboratories of democracy"
Greg, I agree with all you wrote here. A sad state of affairs. I want to add something to this conversation. 18 years ago I gave birth to my oldest daughter - an absolute joy! However, that pregnancy and my second pregnancy took such a toll on my body that an Autoimmune Disease was activated. It took me 9 years to get a partial diagnosis. I went to doctor after doctor and was basically told it was all in my head. "Of course you're tired, you have two small children" - "But this is different, I feel like there is more to it than just being tired" Finally, I found a Doctor that recognized my condition and we have been working together for the last 7 years to find an appropriate treatment. She works with me, there are many conversations between us and she is willing to try different medications that I research. She works WITH me. I am the expert on my body - I know what I need. Nobody else does. Pregnancy can be very hard on a woman's body and bring about physical changes that cannot be anticipated. Add that to the toll on the medical community and humanity.
Thanks for sharing this, Gail. I'm glad you found a good doctor who has worked with you.
And yes, pregnancy is a black box...you really have no idea what will happen. Ultimately, as Elie Mystal argues in his book, forced birth is involuntary servitude, which would be protected under the 13th Amendment. You know, if Alito was smart enough to grasp the basic concept.
Who has property rights on the womb? Not the State, surely
Yes, I want to emphasize that I am one of the fortunate one's who had the financial and emotional support to find a diagnosis. It has been an entirely consuming experience. If I was a single mother with multiple kids and living at the poverty level, I doubt I would have ever found out. I still pay hundreds of dollars every month to treat my condition. I am doing very well now but if I couldn't obtain the healthcare I require, I would be a drain on society and my family. Who knows where I would be? Alito lacks the essential human elements called EMPAHTY and COMPASSION. He is not able to think "outside of the (his) box" and that is the real danger of anyone in a position of power. And GREED.
Superb. Shared. Thank You.
"Why on God’s green earth would a responsible government insist on producing unwanted humans?"
Well, that's a rhetorical question, right? We've been a supremely IRresponsible government since we had the stupid idea to put Ronald Reagan in the White House. Cut this, cut that, take out the Fairness Doctrine, don't even mention AIDS for seven fucking years -- in the 80s! Then we went to Pappy Bush and his war, followed by Clinton and his intern who no one REALLY cared about except that the affair was more fodder for the religious right. Then Sonny Bush and HIS war that was completely in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. Obama gave us the ACA, but didn't pull us out of Bush's war, even after the "mission" was actually accomplished, that being bin Laden's body at the bottom of the ocean (allegedly -- yeah, I said it!). Oh yeah, and codifying Roe just wasn't a big priority. Trump. "Call me irresponsible," indeed.
Republicans will continue their tyranny of the minority until the electorate in this country wakes the fuck up. Every day I hear people saying stupid shit like "I voted for Democrats and they don't do anything". It makes me want to start slapping people. This isn't rocket science. Except for a few minutes in the 111th Congress (2009-10) Republicans have controlled Congress since 1995. For Democrats to pass legislation they need 60 votes in the Senate. Republicans, being the anti-government party, need 41! When legislation fails they win! The problem is, how do you teach 150 million American voters how this works? (Sorry about the rant...).
The tooth fairy never left me even a wooden nickel
“American democracy has been mortally wounded. “
Hmm. To be quite accurate it was Roe v Wade that removed American democracy, i.e., the representatives elected by the people, from making determinations about abortion. It was in Roe V. Wade that 7 judges, feeling omnipotent, “discovered” – confabulated a “constitutional right” that was not merely not known to the Founders but unknown to anyone between 1789 and 1973. Raw judicial power as Justice White called it.
NOTE: Far from prohibiting abortion, Dobbs merely returns abortion to the DEMOCRATIC arena where all you fine little pretend “DEMOCRATS” are going to lose fair and square – which is precisely why you’re howling so much.
“The religious right is trying to bulldoze the separation of church and state.”
Separation of Church and State is a dream of the Left - but does not happen to be mentioned anywhere in the US Constitution. Btw, nearly all of our criminal law obviously derives from the moral law - from “religion” - no more and no less than statutes prohibiting abortion.
“We are on the verge of sliding into a form of fascism that is peculiar to the United States, a government based on the arbitrary and capricious belief system of six radical religious zealots on the Supreme Court who, collectively, represent a small minority of Americans.”
Again, those six zealots merely returned the issue of legalized abortion to the people. If, like you claim, those “zealots” represent a “small minority” of Americans, you’ve got nothing to worry about. Now that you have the Dobbs ruling, you’ll simply win at the ballot box. I can hardly wait - cuz we both know that you fine little advocates of a liberty to kill the unborn are going to get your clocks cleaned. I mean, ain’t that why you’all had to find something like a super-Freemason, something like Justice Blackmun in the first place? Cuz Democracy wasn’t working for you in the late 1960s -early ‘70s? So… along comes Roe in ’73.
We “religious zealots” happen to believe in American representative democracy and in the US Constitution – whereas the American Left no longer does, and hasn’t for a long time – and you aren’t fooling anyone either. The six “religious zealots” must be contrasted with six zealously secular, unelected, life-tenured judges who feel entitled to transform the Supreme Court into a kind of standing – sitting - rolling? – constitutional convention – unlike the legitimate kind of constitutional convention described within… THE CONSTITUTION.
“Life begins at conception: This is the myth that the forced-birth crowd believes.”
Actually, human life does begin at conception. That’s “the science”, bozo. Right outta tenth grade biology. No soul-talk there.
“Once modern medical equipment can detect a heartbeat (we’ll ignore the fact that Jesus wasn’t an ultrasound technician), that fetus is a precious soul who deserves to live, just like you or me. Women who choose to terminate their pregnancies, then, are baby-killers. They may as well rip a fully-formed infant from the womb and smash its still-malleable skull in with a ball-peen hammer. “
In fact, fully formed infants by the thousand were ripped out of wombs by the thousand under the Roe regime – and fine folk like you lost not a moment’s sleep over it. Most of you are closet – or not so closet - infanticide advocates anyway. “Terminate pregnancy” is such a dandy little euphemism.
Our side didn’t bring up souls. You fine folks did. WE said human life is sacred. This, btw is why it’s OK to eat beef, pork, mutton, etc. but cannibalism is a no-no. But many of you say we, “don’t know”, “can’t know”, when human life begins. Yeah – that’s what you say when and only when the subject is abortion. Otherwise, you know as well as anyone else when it begins. Two hunters in the woods. One sees a life form rustling about in the underbrush. He can’t quite tell if it’s a man or a deer. Naturally, he pulls the trigger. Opps, Dead Man. But, not to worry – he’s protected by the constitutional right to kill a human being if and when ya ain’t sure it’s a human being.
“The thing is, there is no non-theocratic justification for a state policy of forced birth.”
There’s no non-theocratic justification for the Ten Commandments. Smith says lying is fine. Jones says it isn’t. So, who’s to say? Eh? However, at a minimum, religious beliefs are not a less constitutional basis for civil law than Godless ones.
They won't be happy until all abortion AND contraception are banned. That means women forced to churn out legions of workers, many low-wage, to keep Republican business leaders happy and rolling in excess profits.
yes, today's GOP are neo-Confederacy -- as historian Heather Cox Richards points out, the Declaration of Independence is about liberty and equality,
but the Constitution is about Protection of Property
(including enslaved humans)
Roe reversal is ALL about VOTER SUPPRESSION in disguise
The Red states are desperate to become MORE RED
GOP policies get the young and liberals to leave Red states
Just wait until they BAN ALL BIRTH CONTROL !
#MangoWanker #Turdking #Mobster #Traitor #GOPTraitors #Murdoch