Dobbs, Democracy, and Days of Our Lives

A discussion with the women's rights activist and "Start Me Up" podcast host Kimberley Johnson

Before launching Start Me Up, the political interview podcast, Kimberley Johnson—that’s Kimberley with an “e-y”—wrote several books, including The Virgin Diaries; maintained a popular blog; and, for ten years, had a recurring role—as a cop!—on the venerable soap opera “Days of Our Lives.” She’s an activist and a champion of women’s rights, and one of the best interviewers in the podcast space.

Her podcast premiered way back in 2016. I’ve been a guest on Start Me Up a half dozen times, but she’d only appeared on PREVAIL once, as part of a panel. Today, we rectify this egregious oversight. It’s always fun to catch up with Kimberley. Because she routinely interviews great guests, she has her finger on the pulse of what’s happening at any given moment. She doesn’t shy away from controversial topics, and she’s really funny.

Here are three takeaways from our discussion:

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The 2024 election is a referendum on abortion rights.

My take is that November will be about Dobbs and democracy. Johnson agrees—but points out that they are two sides of the same proverbial coin.

“I think that really the biggest thing that's going to push this election is abortion rights,” she tells me. “Now, I’ve heard some men say on social media, like, ‘It’s sad that it has to be about abortion and not democracy.’ But to me, it’s one and the same. It’s the same thing. It’s about freedom. And it’s the end. This just happens to be reproductive freedom. And just because it’s about abortion doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect men, because it affects men in every way: economically, personally, all the reasons.”

One trend in recent election cycles is that polls have been unreliable, and media narratives flat-out wrong. Remember the Red Wave that was supposed to happen in 2022? Even in places like Kansas, red as red could be, the abortion issue has moved the needle.

“I think what we saw in [2022], where they expected the red wave and the big media and that didn’t happen,” Johnson says. “A lot of that was because of abortion. And now we’ve got this abortion ban, and I don't know how many people know this—and I think everybody needs to know this—but this abortion ban in Arizona from 1864 was written by a man who was a serial child rapist. And he—I mean, he abducted a 12-year-old and married her, impregnated a 14-year-old and a 15-year-old. So this law that was written by a rapist, a child rapist in the 1800s, is affecting women right now.”

This week, thankfully, Arizona repealed that odious law. But retrograde, pro-forced-birth, science-be-damned antiabortion laws are on the books in plenty of other states—including Florida, where the six-week law took effect this week. This will, as the BBC points out, have a dramatic impact all over the South.

“People around the country are gonna say, ‘Ho ho, wait a minute, because if Trump gets in, that could be anywhere!’ And I will add that when he says he’s okay with States’ Rights,” Johnson says, “then he’s saying he’s okay with these states who would—you know, some states want to kill women who have abortions. He’s saying he’s okay with it.”

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Making a pitch to an undecided voter isn’t one-size-fits-all.

Biden will prevail in November if enough people turn out at the polls. How to get them there? How to impress upon people the stakes of this election? We have to figure out what matters to them, specifically.

Johnson explains:

It’s hard because I think [the pitch] would have to be tailored to each individual. I would want to find out from that voter, What do you care about? What are things that you care about in your life? And then find the information—because there is information about there—[about] how Democrats have affected that particular issue and how Republicans have affected that particular issue. And that’s how I would want to point it out to them.

But if we're going for generalization, I mean, I’ve heard that if you try to explain to people that democracy is at stake, that’s just too big of a [concept] for them to understand. And I get that because, you know, as you know, I lived in Communist Russia. I had the opportunity to see it firsthand. Most people have not. Most people don’t even understand what that’s all about. They haven’t traveled outside of the United States, and they only know what they know here. So if you say, they don't even understand what that means….

People say, “Well, I’m not political,” but you don’t have to be political because there are laws out there that are affecting you right now, and you may like them or you may not like them. So that’s what I would do. I would find out what each individual cares about and then find the evidence of who handles it better, in your opinion. And it’s usually going to be the Democrats.

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Voting for a candidate you like personally but who doesn’t support your positions is dumb.

There are successful politicians who are universally loathed. Ted Cruz, for example, is not much liked. Rand Paul is a jerk—ask his neighbor. But the notion of “likeability” in a political candidate is, on its face, ridiculous. I asked Johnson whether the “Kamala isn’t likeable enough” narrative would hurt the ticket.

Her reply:

Well, you know, how many times did we hear about Hillary? “I just don’t like her.” And you’re allowed—you know, for all those people out there, for all those liberals or progressives or however you identify: if you don’t like Kamala Harris, who cares? Why do you have to like her? Why? Do you like Donald Trump? Do you like anybody in the GOP?

I just don’t understand this. “I have to like her.” …Is this stemming from the Bush years when everybody wanted to have a beer with him or something? It’s like, we don’t have to like the people who are candidates, whether it’s [in the] Senate or anybody, anybody running: you don’t have to like them. You just have to look at their record and how they’re gonna vote, because this is your life.

So I don’t give a shit if I like Kamala Harris or if I don’t like Kamala Harris. I happen to like her. I think she’s awesome. I think she’s incredibly intelligent. I think she’s beautiful—and that doesn’t matter, but still, she’s beautiful—and she’s compassionate, and she’s fun. I love her smile and the light that—and I’m saying this seriously—the light that comes out of her eyes when she smiles. I mean, the woman is love. And okay, she’s a politician and she’s a prosecutor, but she is doing what's best. She loves this country, she loves the women in this country, and she loves the people in this country enough to fight for them and put up with all these horrible attacks [from the rightwing media trolls].

And yeah, I mean…anybody in politics is going to have a big fat ego….I actually want them to, because some weakling isn’t going to do it. You need somebody who has a fat ego. But that doesn’t mean you have to be the most likable person or anything like that. So I just I wish that this would go away…

I did a post on Facebook this morning. I won’t get into it, but it’s about Taylor Swift, and it’s the same thing…. “I just don’t like her.” Why do you have to announce it to everybody? There’s so many artists out there, there’s so many politicians out there that I really don’t like, but I don’t need to go tell everyone all the time. Who gives a shit? Nobody gives a shit if I like Garth Brooks or not. Nobody cares. But it’s a thing about women.

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LISTEN TO THE PODCAST

S7 E11: Days of Our Lies (with Kimberley Johnson)

In this discussion, Greg Olear and Kimberley Johnson discuss her background as an actress and her transition to podcasting; the TikTok ban, the Supreme Court, and the future of the Democratic Party;  concerns about the Supreme Court and the potential impact of abortion rights on the election; the influence of dark money in politics; Trump’s VP pick; Joe Biden's potential legacy, the attacks on Kamala Harris, the importance of voting, and the impact of Trump's criminal trials on the MAGA movement.

Follow Kimberley:

https://linktr.ee/KimberleyJohnson

Listen to her podcast:

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Photo credit: Announcement of Senator Kamala Harris as Candidate for Vice President of the United States - Wilmington, DE - August 12, 2020. Photo by Adam Schultz / Biden for President.