Yes, we will survive this. But I am horrified that we do not have more of our fellow citizens alarmed, saddened, resolute and determined to overthrow the fascist elements now in charge of the "conservative" side of our politics. Fire alarms should be ringing everywhere, and they're not. Sad.
I do detect an infinitesimal move towards maybe thinking about sounding an alarm in the MSM. Hopefully this gets louder as we head into the election year...
I've been asking myself for years if "things are getting worst" or does it seem that way because of our access to "information" 24 hours a day. These are the times I miss my Dad's perspective the most, because he was a history buff whose library was filled with history books. The last time I asked him if he thought things were getting worst was in the 90's. His response was the American people have gone through periods of extreme political rhetoric and policies but the country always comes back to the center. I wonder how he would answer that question today. And to Tuchman's point, the line in Hamilton that says history is who tells your story is relevant. I would add in addition to who, it's what they tell and how.
I think the issue is not that things are worse, because they are objectively not. Advances in science, medicine, technology, communications, etc. Rights for more people than ever before. No major wars during the Pax Americana. Etc. Things were worse in 1917. The issue is that we may begin to see a ROLLBACK of our rights. We already have, with Dobbs. That's the fear, I think.
I have to say, Greg, that I cannot understand how you can claim to be knowledgeable about the reign of Caesar Augustus if you are unaware of the role of the Roman Republic's victory in the Punic Wars - which established Rome as an empire in all but name internationally while maintaining an increasingly-fraudulent republic internally (sound like any major country you happen to live in, looking at the history of that country over the past 80 years to today?), with the economic results of empire making the increasingly-outrageously-rich Roman Patrician class even more antagonistic to the restraints on them set by Republican laws, to the point they supported the insurrections of Roman generals and attempts to install a dictatorship, leading to more class discord in the Republic, and eventually leading to Julius Caesar, the Donald Trump with brains of his time, and the eventual installation of Augustus and the imposition of complete ruling class control without any of the protections of the Republic remaining. Do you really not notice that the period between the final victory over Carthage and the installation of Augustus certainly "rhymes" with our past 80 years?? But you would if you just read a few of the many good studies of the fall of the Republic.
Likewise, how can you have any understanding of how the Civil War happened without an understanding of how the Revolution "baked in" the Civil War?
And yeah, A Distant Mirror is good for you to look at, as was The Guns of August, and you also ought to read The Proud Tower.
Mary Beard's "SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome" is a good one-volume history of Rome from the founding through the fall of the Republic. the Punic Wars, which "made Rome" the way World War II "made the U.S." are important to understand. Adrian Goldsworthy's "The Punic Wars" is a good one volume history of the three wars. Goldsworthy's "Pax Romana: War, Peace and Conquest in the Roman World" is also good. For the fall of the Republic, Plutarch's "Fall of the Roman Republic" is nearly an original source, available in a single volume (Plutarch was not a fan of the Caesars). Brian Taylor's "The Later Roman Republic: The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, a Chronology; Volume Two 145 BC - 27 BC" covers the period from the Punic Wars through the civil wars to the rise of Caesar and the end of the Republic with the installation of Augustus as First Tribune. These are all inexpensive paperbacks at Amazon.
I also have just picked up Mike Johnson's "The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic."
Understanding the Roman Republic is important to understanding the foundation of our republic, because all of the Founders were very familiar with Polybius, the Greek chronicler of the Punic Wars who explained how the structure and operation of the Republic gave it the strength to withstand Hannibal in the Second Punic War and how Carthage was defeated in the Third. Our republic is consciously founded on the structure of the Roman which as we can see has given us strengths, and now we see the same weaknesses.
I had actually only read lightly of the fall of the Republic prior to 2015. But even that light reading and also having read a couple of fictional stories of the period which brought things alive well enough to make me think, "Oh, we've been here before!" led me to reading more deeply on the fall of the Republic. Living through the past 8 years since El Caudillo Del Mar A Lardo came down his golden escalator, the parallels are even more striking the longer we go here. In all my life since being born in the Year of the High Tide of the Republic, which has continuously seen crises and wars that turned me into a historian, I never thought I would live through the Crisis of Crises.
Excellent point. Good news is always on the back pages or ignored entirely. For example, individual productivity is increasing rapidly. One day we’ll all be richer in free time to use wisely. 😀
I was a history major focusing on the Renaissance because I'd been a year abroad in Florence. Then I switched to grad school in English Lit, which involved a lot of British history. Then to Law School and practice.
About 18 years ago I decided to recreate my excellent Western Civ course from freshman year on my own, in 6-8 month chunks, reading intensively in "periods" from Mesopotamian history on. A 3 month retirement trip in 2010 to mostly Germany-sides to Low Countries, Prague, Austria-had me reading by country rather than period. I basically followed Holy Roman Emperors around Europe with a nod to Hapsburgs. On my return reading Peter Brown got me sidetracked to Late Antiquity. It helped that most of this was before the Internet really got going; certainly not 2.0. My favorite period (that got a year) was Medieval, due in part to Tuchman's book that I'd read when it first came out.
I love mysteries so during each chunk I read historical mysteries of the time. I basically abandoned leisure reading of the likes of Robert Ludlum and assorted female sleuths for this program.
I was never really into American history. Then Trump hit. Back to the founding Parents and constitutional history, which I'd had both as undergrad and in law school. But suddenly my reading was more online, more in discussion groups, more ferreting out the deluge of issues his regime raised.
All this has given me a broad perspective and a tendency to spot connections which I try to keep from being banal. Yes there was population migration in Roman times; no, trump is no Augustus. Get into the bad emperors and maybe. But even the worst seem to have been well, smarter, than he is.
Clearly I am a bookworm and not into a heavy social life nor TV. But for all you youngsters out there (I was around 60 when I started) it is a way of keeping a young mind through continual learning==and it is FUN.
I tell everyone that they need to read up on the 30 years war. Because the question that follows shortly after "Is the US a Christian Nation" is the rather important question "OK, which Christianity?" The answer ain't pretty.
Great book. I love Barbara Tuchman’s writing. Will we survive? Survive in the sense of the world still turning, still livable? Yes. Will we be like the Germans after WW2 regretting the last years? I hope not!
I was in Venice in 2019 and thought alot about the Black Death. I did read some about it before the trip but I should have read this book. And I saw my sister-in-law and her husband this weekend and they are the watching the Kennedy series on History channel and highly recommended it. The husband said Kennedy had his war cabinet members read "Guns of August". I saw that as a sign and ordered the book today! Have you read "Paris is Burning?". That is one of my favorite WWII books.
I always appreciate how you take something from history and apply it to today. There really is nothing that new, just more lipstick on the same pig. Truer words were never spoken more about the times we live in than, "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." Of course, it could also be said that even those who DO learn history are doomed to repeat it. Sometimes, I despair of humanity, and for the past several years, some VOTERS, too. We're going to survive, but I have higher aspirations in what's left of my life than "survival."
I have the utmost respect for history buffs, as I’m not one. But I do consider myself something of an amateur philosopher. That combination explains, I guess, why I’m such a fan of what you write, Greg. My favorite take-away from this piece: “No Pope ever issued a Bull to approve of something.” Coming from my experience with the negativity of doom-and-gloom organized religion (though not Catholicism), that’s worth a chuckle!
I want to reread this book, which was first assigned to me by my college Medieval history teacher. As I recall, the graphic scenes depicting the origins of the plague are fascinating. I too, find solace in history & by studying it we can grasp a greater perspective on the World’s current events; however frightening they may have become.
God..I hope you're right Greg. " The orange menace.." Appropos! And like most scourges, finite.
Eventually, we all take the dirt nap, some sooner than others. Who was it that said, "hope springs eternal in the human breast?" Alexander Pope? At last report, he was no optimist. And yet, dine on enough Big Macs and they have been known to create heart issues. Here's to Big Macs!! Do your worst..oh noble burger!
Yes, we will survive this. But I am horrified that we do not have more of our fellow citizens alarmed, saddened, resolute and determined to overthrow the fascist elements now in charge of the "conservative" side of our politics. Fire alarms should be ringing everywhere, and they're not. Sad.
Rigorous factual scientific driven FREE public education.
Including Bachelors, Masters and PHD
Education devoid of gods.
Daily i meet young people that went to countries where there was free education.
Teaser: I talk about this with my guest on next week's podcast.
They are ringing more and more, and I expect it to increase over the next several months. This is brilliant and scary as hell, and I noticed it gets mentioned in other places: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/
Now THAT is an alarm bell, rung by a serious person.
I do detect an infinitesimal move towards maybe thinking about sounding an alarm in the MSM. Hopefully this gets louder as we head into the election year...
Greg i agree with you and Tuchman. Humanity will survive Trump. Even if he starts a Nuclear war.
The sad part is he should have gone to prison years ago.
In a just society the
malevolent Robber Barons would be taken down.
I suspect the black plague like covid still lingers in rat infested mega cities.
8,045,311,447 and climbing
The Black Death started because of climate change. The climate got colder, marmots in Siberia altered their migration patterns slightly, and boom.
I've been asking myself for years if "things are getting worst" or does it seem that way because of our access to "information" 24 hours a day. These are the times I miss my Dad's perspective the most, because he was a history buff whose library was filled with history books. The last time I asked him if he thought things were getting worst was in the 90's. His response was the American people have gone through periods of extreme political rhetoric and policies but the country always comes back to the center. I wonder how he would answer that question today. And to Tuchman's point, the line in Hamilton that says history is who tells your story is relevant. I would add in addition to who, it's what they tell and how.
I think the issue is not that things are worse, because they are objectively not. Advances in science, medicine, technology, communications, etc. Rights for more people than ever before. No major wars during the Pax Americana. Etc. Things were worse in 1917. The issue is that we may begin to see a ROLLBACK of our rights. We already have, with Dobbs. That's the fear, I think.
I have to say, Greg, that I cannot understand how you can claim to be knowledgeable about the reign of Caesar Augustus if you are unaware of the role of the Roman Republic's victory in the Punic Wars - which established Rome as an empire in all but name internationally while maintaining an increasingly-fraudulent republic internally (sound like any major country you happen to live in, looking at the history of that country over the past 80 years to today?), with the economic results of empire making the increasingly-outrageously-rich Roman Patrician class even more antagonistic to the restraints on them set by Republican laws, to the point they supported the insurrections of Roman generals and attempts to install a dictatorship, leading to more class discord in the Republic, and eventually leading to Julius Caesar, the Donald Trump with brains of his time, and the eventual installation of Augustus and the imposition of complete ruling class control without any of the protections of the Republic remaining. Do you really not notice that the period between the final victory over Carthage and the installation of Augustus certainly "rhymes" with our past 80 years?? But you would if you just read a few of the many good studies of the fall of the Republic.
Likewise, how can you have any understanding of how the Civil War happened without an understanding of how the Revolution "baked in" the Civil War?
And yeah, A Distant Mirror is good for you to look at, as was The Guns of August, and you also ought to read The Proud Tower.
Thanks
Any specific book recommendations?
Mary Beard's "SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome" is a good one-volume history of Rome from the founding through the fall of the Republic. the Punic Wars, which "made Rome" the way World War II "made the U.S." are important to understand. Adrian Goldsworthy's "The Punic Wars" is a good one volume history of the three wars. Goldsworthy's "Pax Romana: War, Peace and Conquest in the Roman World" is also good. For the fall of the Republic, Plutarch's "Fall of the Roman Republic" is nearly an original source, available in a single volume (Plutarch was not a fan of the Caesars). Brian Taylor's "The Later Roman Republic: The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, a Chronology; Volume Two 145 BC - 27 BC" covers the period from the Punic Wars through the civil wars to the rise of Caesar and the end of the Republic with the installation of Augustus as First Tribune. These are all inexpensive paperbacks at Amazon.
I also have just picked up Mike Johnson's "The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic."
Understanding the Roman Republic is important to understanding the foundation of our republic, because all of the Founders were very familiar with Polybius, the Greek chronicler of the Punic Wars who explained how the structure and operation of the Republic gave it the strength to withstand Hannibal in the Second Punic War and how Carthage was defeated in the Third. Our republic is consciously founded on the structure of the Roman which as we can see has given us strengths, and now we see the same weaknesses.
Thanks!
Thanks for this. I know about those things, but for whatever reason, I don't find them as interesting. One cannot know everything, alas...
But you're right about the parallels of Caesar and Trump, and all of that, obviously.
Great line from Voltaire that she quotes in the foreword: "History doesn't repeat; men do."
Yes, that is really It.
I had actually only read lightly of the fall of the Republic prior to 2015. But even that light reading and also having read a couple of fictional stories of the period which brought things alive well enough to make me think, "Oh, we've been here before!" led me to reading more deeply on the fall of the Republic. Living through the past 8 years since El Caudillo Del Mar A Lardo came down his golden escalator, the parallels are even more striking the longer we go here. In all my life since being born in the Year of the High Tide of the Republic, which has continuously seen crises and wars that turned me into a historian, I never thought I would live through the Crisis of Crises.
I just ordered The Distsnt Mirror! The cover alone would have ignited my book lust. Thanks for your fine review!
Love your ditty!
Thank you!
Excellent point. Good news is always on the back pages or ignored entirely. For example, individual productivity is increasing rapidly. One day we’ll all be richer in free time to use wisely. 😀
This remains the best time to be alive, strange as that sounds...
Great piece! I kept thinking about Tuchman as I listened to Maddow’s ULTRA podcast. There is a comfort in knowing that we’ve “survived worse”.
Right? I mean, a third of Europe didn't survive it, but the point holds...
Agreed!
I was a history major focusing on the Renaissance because I'd been a year abroad in Florence. Then I switched to grad school in English Lit, which involved a lot of British history. Then to Law School and practice.
About 18 years ago I decided to recreate my excellent Western Civ course from freshman year on my own, in 6-8 month chunks, reading intensively in "periods" from Mesopotamian history on. A 3 month retirement trip in 2010 to mostly Germany-sides to Low Countries, Prague, Austria-had me reading by country rather than period. I basically followed Holy Roman Emperors around Europe with a nod to Hapsburgs. On my return reading Peter Brown got me sidetracked to Late Antiquity. It helped that most of this was before the Internet really got going; certainly not 2.0. My favorite period (that got a year) was Medieval, due in part to Tuchman's book that I'd read when it first came out.
I love mysteries so during each chunk I read historical mysteries of the time. I basically abandoned leisure reading of the likes of Robert Ludlum and assorted female sleuths for this program.
I was never really into American history. Then Trump hit. Back to the founding Parents and constitutional history, which I'd had both as undergrad and in law school. But suddenly my reading was more online, more in discussion groups, more ferreting out the deluge of issues his regime raised.
All this has given me a broad perspective and a tendency to spot connections which I try to keep from being banal. Yes there was population migration in Roman times; no, trump is no Augustus. Get into the bad emperors and maybe. But even the worst seem to have been well, smarter, than he is.
Clearly I am a bookworm and not into a heavy social life nor TV. But for all you youngsters out there (I was around 60 when I started) it is a way of keeping a young mind through continual learning==and it is FUN.
Oh, that's such a wonderful thing to do! I love it!
The HRE is so complex. I have a big fat book on the Thirty Years' War, and my goodness. So complicated.
I tell everyone that they need to read up on the 30 years war. Because the question that follows shortly after "Is the US a Christian Nation" is the rather important question "OK, which Christianity?" The answer ain't pretty.
Grateful for the Christmas book recommendations for my voracious reader of non-fiction. My husband will love them!
Good! I'm so glad!
Great book. I love Barbara Tuchman’s writing. Will we survive? Survive in the sense of the world still turning, still livable? Yes. Will we be like the Germans after WW2 regretting the last years? I hope not!
Time will tell...
I was in Venice in 2019 and thought alot about the Black Death. I did read some about it before the trip but I should have read this book. And I saw my sister-in-law and her husband this weekend and they are the watching the Kennedy series on History channel and highly recommended it. The husband said Kennedy had his war cabinet members read "Guns of August". I saw that as a sign and ordered the book today! Have you read "Paris is Burning?". That is one of my favorite WWII books.
Guns of August informed JFK heading into the Cuban Missile Crisis, and influenced him to de-escalate. So she sort of saved the world...
No, I didn't read Paris is Burning, will add to my list. Thanks!
I always appreciate how you take something from history and apply it to today. There really is nothing that new, just more lipstick on the same pig. Truer words were never spoken more about the times we live in than, "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." Of course, it could also be said that even those who DO learn history are doomed to repeat it. Sometimes, I despair of humanity, and for the past several years, some VOTERS, too. We're going to survive, but I have higher aspirations in what's left of my life than "survival."
Thanks, Steve.
Yes. Mandel writes about that in STATION ELEVEN, my favorite recent novel: "Survival is insufficient." But I think she's quoting Star Trek...
I'm ALL IN on quoting Star Trek, just hoping that "Resistance is futile" doesn't become a thing. 👀
I have the utmost respect for history buffs, as I’m not one. But I do consider myself something of an amateur philosopher. That combination explains, I guess, why I’m such a fan of what you write, Greg. My favorite take-away from this piece: “No Pope ever issued a Bull to approve of something.” Coming from my experience with the negativity of doom-and-gloom organized religion (though not Catholicism), that’s worth a chuckle!
Thanks, Earl. Isn't that a great line? There are so many in the book. My goodness, she's such a good writer.
I want to reread this book, which was first assigned to me by my college Medieval history teacher. As I recall, the graphic scenes depicting the origins of the plague are fascinating. I too, find solace in history & by studying it we can grasp a greater perspective on the World’s current events; however frightening they may have become.
I'm not there yet! No spoilers!
; )
God..I hope you're right Greg. " The orange menace.." Appropos! And like most scourges, finite.
Eventually, we all take the dirt nap, some sooner than others. Who was it that said, "hope springs eternal in the human breast?" Alexander Pope? At last report, he was no optimist. And yet, dine on enough Big Macs and they have been known to create heart issues. Here's to Big Macs!! Do your worst..oh noble burger!