I saw "The Imitation Game" when it was first released to the movie theaters. It was fascinating. But what happens to Alan Turning in the end was so phenomenally sad, and such a waste of a brilliant mind/life, that it has been very hard for me to let it go. The small-mindedness of humanity always leads to tragedy. I don't think I have the attention span to sit through several hours of "Oppenheimer" in a movie theater. I may have to wait until it comes to streaming so I can watch it in chunks.
The truth is, the bombs did not end the war. The day Nagasaki was bombed, the event is not mentioned anywhere in the minutes of the Supreme War Council (I've read them, doing research for my book "Tidal Wave"). The only topic of discussion that day was the Soviet invasion of Manchuria. The Japanese were completely surprised by the entry of the USSR into the Pacific War. The first day, the Red Army went 119 kilometers, slicing through the nearly-non-existant defenses. The vaunted Kwantung Army was a shadow of its former self, its best units having been sent to Kyushu to meet the coming American invasion. The Japanese expected the Red Army to have taken Manchuria and Sakhalin Island by the end of the month. The Soviet plan (I've also read it) was to invade Hokkaido in September - two months ahead of Operation Olympic (the US invasion). There were no defenses in Japan outside of those on the five beaches in Kyushu. The Soviets could have been in Tokyo by mid October and have taken Honshu by November. The Japanese knew what the Soviets had done in Germany berfore and after the surrender. The only alternative to such a fate was to surrender to the US, which they did. And then they made sure to tell us that it certainly was the bombs that did it, which has allowed them to play the World's Greatest Victim, their crimes in the Rape of Nanking, Unit 719, the Bataan Death March and the Thai-Burma Railway forgotten (and no "de-nazification" after the war - the late Prime Minister Abe was the son of one of the wartime Japanese leaders who planned the war; do you think that would happen in germany?) And we have based our "world power" status on a lie and a threat that can never be made good for 78 years - notice we have won no wars since 1945.
Ironically, the Nagasaki bomb was dropped - against orders - by radar, since the alternative was to drop the world's most expensive weapon in the ocean, if the B-29 was to have a chance of getting to Okinawa (where they ran out of gas on the runway in what Jimmy Doolittle called the craziest landing he ever saw). The radar target they dropped on was not the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries war factory. It was the Urakami Catholic Church, the largest Christian church in Asia, built by the contributions of the parishioners after their practice of the religion was made legal in the Meiji Restoration in 1880 after 200 years of official persecution.
There's a reason why you have to look long and hard in the Official Mythology to find more than a bare recognition that Nagasaki was even bombed. The entire story paints a very different picture of America and Americans.
And the fact that the people of Nagasaki did the very Christian thing and forgave us, and dedicated their city to international brotherhood as the only way to make sure it never happened again, and that they really practice their beliefs if you as an American visit the city (which I did) by doing the un-Japanese thing of inviting you into their homes, is why you never ever see reporters going there to do a story about that bomb; they go to Hiroshima where the Professional Victims live.
May I suggest you re-think that decision to to take that remedial class in reading comprehension? The military government had nothing to fight with, other than what they had on Kyushu. At the rate of progress the Soviets were making, and the complete lack of defenses in northern Japan, their desire to fight to the death wouldn't have mattered. That is why the sane ones went to the Emperor and convinced him to take leadership as the only way out.
Nagasaki was the most anti-imperial city in Japan, center of the anti-Shogun Christian resistance in the 17th Century. How perfect that the city that shared our opinion of the Emperor would be the one we would bomb.
If you'd like more information on this, you can get "Tidal Wave" at Amazon:
Most people think it is. All my books have 4+ star ratings. I'll look forward to seeing what you think when you're finished. The book goes into Nagasaki and the second mission in great detail.
My husband and I also went to Oppenheimer last night. I understand what you’re saying about the character development and trying to keep track of them all. Interesting that once we got the bomb, our govt failed to protect the scientist who led the project. The scenes with Strauss and Oppenheimer were winners and Remi Malik at the confirmation hearing was perfect! I thought his (Oppen) wife was a scientist also briefly mentioned at start of movie? All in all I enjoyed the movie.
Barbenheimer has given many of us a defense to commit pink on fuschia fashion crimes and combine the look with the best of black and white 50s menswear *hats* and blazers. Don't take this moment from me, Greg. It almost rivals steampunk.
Well, unfortunately I have to disagree with your son. The Barbie movie was easily one of my all-time favorites. I laughed so hard I was afraid I might get kicked out of the theater.
Last night I watched Greta Gerwig and Ben Mankiewicz discuss her love of old movies and how they influenced Barbie with last night . They co hosted the presentation of Philadelphia Story and The Red Shoes on TCM. I could have listened to her all night. She said she showed her favorite movies every Sunday to the cast and crew so they could get a sense of what she was trying to create with Barbie. Now I want to see it!
Appreciate the line, “the nerdiest of nerdy men, who in real life looked less like Ryan Gosling and more like Ben Shapiro.“, and the Sunday piece Greg!
Having photographed/animated for defense contractors and the DOD for years, I know too much of the story about the destruction and deaths attributed to the Manhattan Project, and our military intelligence oxymoron for insanity!
Fat Man, Little Boy, The Trinity test, of The Gadget, Las Alamos, Bikini Atoll. Coupled with Operation Paperclip, and our continued use of depleted uranium weaponry, hmm great world we’re denizens of eh?
I’ve listened to the NPR interview about Nolan’s Oppenheimer, that’s enough for this anti-war coloured Kat!
Pearl Harbor, the Manhattan Project, and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki all happened during my lifetime; so I suppose I should care about seeing Oppenheimer. I won’t, for a number of reasons, including medical issues, that have kept my wife and me out of theaters for years now. We do plan to see “To End All War,” the hour-and-a-half documentary, apparently on a similar subject, that we have saved on YouTube. The most remarkable outcome of the nuclear era, to me, is that we have not only avoided destroying each other, but that Japan is now a friendly country. I’m not sure that “time heals all wounds,” but obviously over time a lot can heal. And a lot has.
Ben Shapiro is that person who lives in the neighborhood that you cross the street or hide behind a bush to avoid if you see him coming. He's an annoying crank, and his opinion is modeled on what he thinks what are now Trumpists, want to hear. His biggest problem is he also believes his own bullshit.
"Oppenheimer." I got into a rabbit hole of "Oppenheimer/Barbie" stories yesterday and decided that as ridiculous as it seems on the surface, I was DEFINITELY going to see Barbie. With that settled, I went into Oppenheimer stuff. I bought the "American Prometheus" book, which I thought I had, but didn't. As far as the film, I simply DON'T go to theaters anymore. The last time I did was to see, "Kathy Griffin: A Hell of a Story" in the summer of 2019, and I couldn't tell you what I saw in a theater before that. If I could be guaranteed an evening with few people in the theater, and far away from me with their popcorn chewing, nachos crunching, drinks spilling, phones lighting up, and TALKING, I might go, but I can't get that guarantee, so no.
But I did decide to finally watch "Tenet" last night. I am more than happy to watch a movie more than once to catch things I may have missed the first time through, but "Tenet" left me completely cold. I didn't care to spend another 150 minutes trying to suss out a plot/story that I really didn't care about in the first place. "Dunkirk" left me much the same way: an overly LOUD disjointed mess of a film. "Tenet" and "Dunkirk" are Nolan's last two films before "Oppenheimer." Before that were masterpieces of filmmaking like "Interstellar," "Inception," The "Batman" trilogy, "Insomnia," and "The Prestige," which is one of my favorite films, and "Insomnia" is highly underrated. So, what happened? I have no idea. I was looking forward to "Oppenheimer," and may even have gone into a theater to watch it, but after reading last night and your column today, Greg, I'll wait until it hits streaming and/or Blu-ray. Tidbits I learned... It's 90 to 120 days from the opening until it hits streaming. There is also NO CGI in the film. People also think it's going to sweep the Oscars.
I am FASCINATED by this era in American history. I've read books, seen documentaries, was a huge fan of the two-season show, "Manhattan." It's unfortunate that Nolan seems to be continuing down Dunkirk-Tenet Road, instead of returning to what made him great in the first place. People are constantly changing, I guess. Lame.
Tenet is annoying in that you can't hear what they are saying, which is especially necessary with something so complicated and time-travel-y. But I really love it, and he nails the politics. Oppenheimer is great for what it is...a big budget, very well made Wikipedia page. Certainly I learned a lot. I'll be curious to hear what you think.
Haha, I watched Tenet WITH subtitles on and STILL didn't get the point. I had no idea who or what I was supposed to care about. FINALLY, toward the end I think I got the plot that although everyone wanted to kill Kenneth Branaugh, he must not die before they something, something, out of a hole or the world would end with his death, and they had 10 minutes to do it either forwards or backwards in time. WTF?? A straightforward plotline would have been confusing enough without adding time travel stuff to it! I will probably give Nolan another two and a half hours of my life to see what I missed. I went into it, KNOWING I had to pay attention, and I did, still... mishmash of sound and fury, signifying nothing. I always think it's me when I hear Nolan's sound mixes, but no, it's him, as if the words aren't as important as the visual.
Right this very minute I have fuschia high waisted wide leg office pants, white ruched short sleeve with bows on each arm/shoulder and silver beads on the bows. Vionic magenta and fuschia (with leather) sneakers and a black/white tweed golf cap.
I have the gingham fuschia/white crop pants for next week. It's so on....just sucks how hot it is. Have to do vests not jackets if outside.
I haven’t seen “Oppenheimer” yet but plan too. Once I do, I see if my impression coincides with yours. On another note, you might be interested to learn that in 1947, Einstein and Oppenheimer wrote a 6-page document on the relationship between peoples of Earth and extraterrestrials. It was “Top Secret” for a period of time. (No, it was found in Trump’s cache of classified documents.) if you’re interested you can read it here. https://www.ancient-origins.net/files/oppenheimer_einstein.pdf
In other words, what you're saying is that you are living in full boom. At least, that's what it sounds like. There is something dynamic in that.
I'd just walk. ; )
I loved your reply to my :,periodic table comment...bor-ium.
Putting the fun back in Functioal Group chemistry...
I couldn't find the original just your reply and brought a smile to a "molecule bender" type reader.
Always a fun read plus great Q&A!
I saw "The Imitation Game" when it was first released to the movie theaters. It was fascinating. But what happens to Alan Turning in the end was so phenomenally sad, and such a waste of a brilliant mind/life, that it has been very hard for me to let it go. The small-mindedness of humanity always leads to tragedy. I don't think I have the attention span to sit through several hours of "Oppenheimer" in a movie theater. I may have to wait until it comes to streaming so I can watch it in chunks.
I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to focus. It was good for my brain to flex that muscle.
The truth is, the bombs did not end the war. The day Nagasaki was bombed, the event is not mentioned anywhere in the minutes of the Supreme War Council (I've read them, doing research for my book "Tidal Wave"). The only topic of discussion that day was the Soviet invasion of Manchuria. The Japanese were completely surprised by the entry of the USSR into the Pacific War. The first day, the Red Army went 119 kilometers, slicing through the nearly-non-existant defenses. The vaunted Kwantung Army was a shadow of its former self, its best units having been sent to Kyushu to meet the coming American invasion. The Japanese expected the Red Army to have taken Manchuria and Sakhalin Island by the end of the month. The Soviet plan (I've also read it) was to invade Hokkaido in September - two months ahead of Operation Olympic (the US invasion). There were no defenses in Japan outside of those on the five beaches in Kyushu. The Soviets could have been in Tokyo by mid October and have taken Honshu by November. The Japanese knew what the Soviets had done in Germany berfore and after the surrender. The only alternative to such a fate was to surrender to the US, which they did. And then they made sure to tell us that it certainly was the bombs that did it, which has allowed them to play the World's Greatest Victim, their crimes in the Rape of Nanking, Unit 719, the Bataan Death March and the Thai-Burma Railway forgotten (and no "de-nazification" after the war - the late Prime Minister Abe was the son of one of the wartime Japanese leaders who planned the war; do you think that would happen in germany?) And we have based our "world power" status on a lie and a threat that can never be made good for 78 years - notice we have won no wars since 1945.
Ironically, the Nagasaki bomb was dropped - against orders - by radar, since the alternative was to drop the world's most expensive weapon in the ocean, if the B-29 was to have a chance of getting to Okinawa (where they ran out of gas on the runway in what Jimmy Doolittle called the craziest landing he ever saw). The radar target they dropped on was not the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries war factory. It was the Urakami Catholic Church, the largest Christian church in Asia, built by the contributions of the parishioners after their practice of the religion was made legal in the Meiji Restoration in 1880 after 200 years of official persecution.
There's a reason why you have to look long and hard in the Official Mythology to find more than a bare recognition that Nagasaki was even bombed. The entire story paints a very different picture of America and Americans.
And the fact that the people of Nagasaki did the very Christian thing and forgave us, and dedicated their city to international brotherhood as the only way to make sure it never happened again, and that they really practice their beliefs if you as an American visit the city (which I did) by doing the un-Japanese thing of inviting you into their homes, is why you never ever see reporters going there to do a story about that bomb; they go to Hiroshima where the Professional Victims live.
May I suggest you re-think that decision to to take that remedial class in reading comprehension? The military government had nothing to fight with, other than what they had on Kyushu. At the rate of progress the Soviets were making, and the complete lack of defenses in northern Japan, their desire to fight to the death wouldn't have mattered. That is why the sane ones went to the Emperor and convinced him to take leadership as the only way out.
Thanks for this...this is fascinating. I have to go down the rabbit hole on this for sure.
It also explains the reluctance in the film, I think, to talk about Nagasaki. Truman practically spits when he utters the word.
Nagasaki was the most anti-imperial city in Japan, center of the anti-Shogun Christian resistance in the 17th Century. How perfect that the city that shared our opinion of the Emperor would be the one we would bomb.
If you'd like more information on this, you can get "Tidal Wave" at Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=thomas+mckelvey+cleaver+-+tidal+wave&i=stripbooks&crid=22R7J3C9T3OCS&sprefix=thomas+mckelvey+cleaver+-+tidal+wave%2Cstripbooks%2C119&ref=nb_sb_noss
if your book is as good as this comment I'll happily buy a copy
Most people think it is. All my books have 4+ star ratings. I'll look forward to seeing what you think when you're finished. The book goes into Nagasaki and the second mission in great detail.
I didn't realize it was YOUR book. I just bought it!
I think he presented it fine. It just left me cold. Not everything is meant to move me, but this could have and didn't.
Glad you mentioned Turing, such horrible treatment of heroes that should have been lauded.
He's now on the 50 pound note. Too little too late, but a nice gesture.
Maybe his ghost can appreciate it. Hate to think of the hate resurrecting as we post.
I thought it was Teller that put the knife in?
McCarthy-, sheesh every generation has its cross tobear.
There ya go!
My husband and I also went to Oppenheimer last night. I understand what you’re saying about the character development and trying to keep track of them all. Interesting that once we got the bomb, our govt failed to protect the scientist who led the project. The scenes with Strauss and Oppenheimer were winners and Remi Malik at the confirmation hearing was perfect! I thought his (Oppen) wife was a scientist also briefly mentioned at start of movie? All in all I enjoyed the movie.
Yeah, Rami at the hearing was good. Excellent casting choice.
She was a chemist, I believe, but the only thing she was mixing during the film was martinis.
🤣 I noticed that too! It was hard for smart women to push down their own ambitions.
Barbenheimer has given many of us a defense to commit pink on fuschia fashion crimes and combine the look with the best of black and white 50s menswear *hats* and blazers. Don't take this moment from me, Greg. It almost rivals steampunk.
Pictures or it didn't happen!
I myself tried this on Friday's show...purple shirt for Barbie, gray blazer for Oppenheimer.
Well, unfortunately I have to disagree with your son. The Barbie movie was easily one of my all-time favorites. I laughed so hard I was afraid I might get kicked out of the theater.
Last night I watched Greta Gerwig and Ben Mankiewicz discuss her love of old movies and how they influenced Barbie with last night . They co hosted the presentation of Philadelphia Story and The Red Shoes on TCM. I could have listened to her all night. She said she showed her favorite movies every Sunday to the cast and crew so they could get a sense of what she was trying to create with Barbie. Now I want to see it!
I'm very curious to see it, but I'm movied out for the weekend.
This is very, very good to hear!
I love that you're not fan-boying all over the place, and not from a contrarian's place, but from a movie lover's.
I think "Tenet" is so good, and this doesn't rise to that level. It's a different kind of movie, of course, but I don't know. I expected...more.
Appreciate the line, “the nerdiest of nerdy men, who in real life looked less like Ryan Gosling and more like Ben Shapiro.“, and the Sunday piece Greg!
Having photographed/animated for defense contractors and the DOD for years, I know too much of the story about the destruction and deaths attributed to the Manhattan Project, and our military intelligence oxymoron for insanity!
Fat Man, Little Boy, The Trinity test, of The Gadget, Las Alamos, Bikini Atoll. Coupled with Operation Paperclip, and our continued use of depleted uranium weaponry, hmm great world we’re denizens of eh?
I’ve listened to the NPR interview about Nolan’s Oppenheimer, that’s enough for this anti-war coloured Kat!
Thanks, Patrick. What a fascinating job that must be!
Computer technology spelled the end of what was once done by hand. While fascinating at times, the awakening brought pause in much more youthful days!
Pearl Harbor, the Manhattan Project, and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki all happened during my lifetime; so I suppose I should care about seeing Oppenheimer. I won’t, for a number of reasons, including medical issues, that have kept my wife and me out of theaters for years now. We do plan to see “To End All War,” the hour-and-a-half documentary, apparently on a similar subject, that we have saved on YouTube. The most remarkable outcome of the nuclear era, to me, is that we have not only avoided destroying each other, but that Japan is now a friendly country. I’m not sure that “time heals all wounds,” but obviously over time a lot can heal. And a lot has.
A complete 180. Strange. Amazing, really.
Ben Shapiro is that person who lives in the neighborhood that you cross the street or hide behind a bush to avoid if you see him coming. He's an annoying crank, and his opinion is modeled on what he thinks what are now Trumpists, want to hear. His biggest problem is he also believes his own bullshit.
"Oppenheimer." I got into a rabbit hole of "Oppenheimer/Barbie" stories yesterday and decided that as ridiculous as it seems on the surface, I was DEFINITELY going to see Barbie. With that settled, I went into Oppenheimer stuff. I bought the "American Prometheus" book, which I thought I had, but didn't. As far as the film, I simply DON'T go to theaters anymore. The last time I did was to see, "Kathy Griffin: A Hell of a Story" in the summer of 2019, and I couldn't tell you what I saw in a theater before that. If I could be guaranteed an evening with few people in the theater, and far away from me with their popcorn chewing, nachos crunching, drinks spilling, phones lighting up, and TALKING, I might go, but I can't get that guarantee, so no.
But I did decide to finally watch "Tenet" last night. I am more than happy to watch a movie more than once to catch things I may have missed the first time through, but "Tenet" left me completely cold. I didn't care to spend another 150 minutes trying to suss out a plot/story that I really didn't care about in the first place. "Dunkirk" left me much the same way: an overly LOUD disjointed mess of a film. "Tenet" and "Dunkirk" are Nolan's last two films before "Oppenheimer." Before that were masterpieces of filmmaking like "Interstellar," "Inception," The "Batman" trilogy, "Insomnia," and "The Prestige," which is one of my favorite films, and "Insomnia" is highly underrated. So, what happened? I have no idea. I was looking forward to "Oppenheimer," and may even have gone into a theater to watch it, but after reading last night and your column today, Greg, I'll wait until it hits streaming and/or Blu-ray. Tidbits I learned... It's 90 to 120 days from the opening until it hits streaming. There is also NO CGI in the film. People also think it's going to sweep the Oscars.
I am FASCINATED by this era in American history. I've read books, seen documentaries, was a huge fan of the two-season show, "Manhattan." It's unfortunate that Nolan seems to be continuing down Dunkirk-Tenet Road, instead of returning to what made him great in the first place. People are constantly changing, I guess. Lame.
Tenet is annoying in that you can't hear what they are saying, which is especially necessary with something so complicated and time-travel-y. But I really love it, and he nails the politics. Oppenheimer is great for what it is...a big budget, very well made Wikipedia page. Certainly I learned a lot. I'll be curious to hear what you think.
Haha, I watched Tenet WITH subtitles on and STILL didn't get the point. I had no idea who or what I was supposed to care about. FINALLY, toward the end I think I got the plot that although everyone wanted to kill Kenneth Branaugh, he must not die before they something, something, out of a hole or the world would end with his death, and they had 10 minutes to do it either forwards or backwards in time. WTF?? A straightforward plotline would have been confusing enough without adding time travel stuff to it! I will probably give Nolan another two and a half hours of my life to see what I missed. I went into it, KNOWING I had to pay attention, and I did, still... mishmash of sound and fury, signifying nothing. I always think it's me when I hear Nolan's sound mixes, but no, it's him, as if the words aren't as important as the visual.
Right this very minute I have fuschia high waisted wide leg office pants, white ruched short sleeve with bows on each arm/shoulder and silver beads on the bows. Vionic magenta and fuschia (with leather) sneakers and a black/white tweed golf cap.
I have the gingham fuschia/white crop pants for next week. It's so on....just sucks how hot it is. Have to do vests not jackets if outside.
That is a lovely "fit," as the kids say.
Hmmmm
Greg, many months ago i sent you the Bohr/Heisenberg film.
I watched it twice.
The "bomb" is likely never going to get squeezed down
into a 2 to 3 hour film.
Technology is a failure.
"The advent of agriculture was the beginning of the decline of "Manunkind"
Jared Diamond
Humans are a failed experiment
Your pals
Hunter/gatherers
Cal and Amoukar
I'll be curious if you ever see this one, Cal, what you think.
Greg. Ill try to see the film if i survive my Cardioversion procedure.
I already upgraded to Paid. For some reason, I’m told my user name and password are both wrong.
Hmm. It must have worked b/c you could not have commented otherwise.
I don’t know what this is about, Greg.
All that and the Periodic Table!
Bor-ium. lol.
I haven’t seen “Oppenheimer” yet but plan too. Once I do, I see if my impression coincides with yours. On another note, you might be interested to learn that in 1947, Einstein and Oppenheimer wrote a 6-page document on the relationship between peoples of Earth and extraterrestrials. It was “Top Secret” for a period of time. (No, it was found in Trump’s cache of classified documents.) if you’re interested you can read it here. https://www.ancient-origins.net/files/oppenheimer_einstein.pdf
Oh wow, thanks!