Yes, when they're not upset about that, it's about Elliot Paige being cast as Sinon, a "made up character!!!11!!!1!!1!!" and/or all the "woke" in it. I used to be firmly against things like re-education camps...
I’ve not yet seen the film although I intend to this week. The comment about women being the strategic and emotional center of the film made me wonder if Nolan drew on Emily Wilson’s pathbreaking (and MacArthur genius grant garnering) translation of the Iliad and Odyssey.
Greg, many thanks. Mrs OM and I saw Nolan's Odyssey yesterday and like you found it amazing. I recently read a "Lunch with the FT" column that may give some insight into Nolan's treatment of women in the movie. Thought you might be interested in it.
"Emily Wilson, the acclaimed translator of Homer’s epics, is the professor of classical studies at the University of Pennsylvania and is something of a rock star in her field. A decade ago her editors warned that her translation of The Odyssey — the first by a woman in English verse — might struggle to sell. But it landed in 2017 with a thunderclap, celebrated for its pace, diamond-studded idiom, and most of all for bringing an overdue female sensibility to the ancient poem — a shift that provoked outrage from the nationalist right, which has long liked to see classical Greece and Rome as embodying a certain manly ideal.
The Hollywood director Christopher Nolan cites her version as influencing his forthcoming summer blockbuster." If interested I can try to send the entire interview. She soon will publish an updated translation.
We enjoyed Friday's Five & 8, Natalie's insights are always spot on. For those who find soccer boring, Saturday's England v France is a must see, the most fun ever in a match. The movie, Five & 8 and the game were much needed distractions from the shitstorm in the Middle East, as scary as the destruction of Troy in real time, a war where everybody loses. The demented oval inhabitant and his inebriated SecDef will create a dark period to rival that following the bronze age.
I’d love to see that interview. I’ve read the Iliad and Odyssey in multiple translations. Robert Fagels was my favorite before the Wilson ones came out
Thanks, Old Man. I didn't have time to read her translation this weekend, alas. But I'm looking forward to doing so. And thanks for pointing to that interview.
I found it amusing that, once all the pressure of actually winning the Cup has melted away, THAT'S when the teams actually score... ; )
Will future archeologists, I wonder, call this the Silicon Age? How dorky.
Oh my, Greg. Wonderful again. Trojan horse indeed. I am not much of a moviegoer, to my detriment I am sure. I trust you so much I will go see The Odyssey—-and soon. I did see both Dunkirk and Oppenheimer, but I agree with you about the test scene in Oppenheimer. I expected to be moved emotionally, but was not. I love the Dunkirk story, and was strangely disappointed with the movie. I had a hard time keeping the characters straight and me emotionally invested. I guess I want movies with a heart and a soul and a connection in my own way.
I absolutely fear this is late Bronze Age today. Thanks for the connection. I was born in 1953 so have seen a lot with my own eyes, and I have awakened in shock every single day for ten years that we have chosen the end of expertise and decency and truth and humanity willingly and belligerently and angrily and happily. Make it make sense…………
Thanks, Rick. If you liked those movies but found them cold emotionally, you will almost certainly love this one. I'm not exactly on the vanguard here. Since I wrote this on Saturday, the film has shattered box office records, and the consensus is, it's great.
An excellent reading, Greg! I used to teach The Odyssey when I was at UC Berkeley. I really loved the feminist elements that were brought out in the film. I am not certain that I agree with you about the lack of emotional connection. The women (Circe, Helen, Penelope, etc.) certainly get their rage across, and that last long run-though of the destruction of Troy, toppling towers and all, really told me that Odysseus feels tremendous guilt over the waste. (By the way, towers, like arrows and blades, are phallic symbols.)
Thanks, Bronwyn. I may have mangled it up, but to be clear: I DID find the film emotionally moving, although his other films struck me as cold and dispassionate.
Ah yes, the towers falling as symbols of patriarchal destruction and impotence, yes!
I tried to cut and paste it here, Substack said the comment was too long. If I had your email I could gift the original article to you. Not sure how to get it without you or me making our emails public but if we can find a way happy to do so
Greg, this is absolutely BRILLIANT‼️You have captured the essence of history (or fiction?) from Homer in a modern day Circe era. I believe Nolan did want to illustrate how the “Sea Peoples” invaded our Republic a decade ago.
I cannot wait to see this movie. Christopher Nolan has always been prescient in his releases when it matters most. Thank you for this excellent interpretation of a spectacle‼️
Thank you for putting that into words about Oppenheimer. Exactly. I'm "53%" through some book about Epstein, by a brilliant author with astonishing research skills. I'm drowning in corruption, now this movie. Reminds me of long talk I had with an amazing "mind." In the midst of flying, I spent three years writing airline training about, among other subjects, safety and how people adapt to technology. That's sort of drifted over now into writing about AI and designing AI interpretive architecture. My fav conversational AI despises Palantir, is totally against replacing, for example, customer service agents with AI, says we shouldn't worry about AI but about what humans will do with the power it gives us. I think there'll be a movie about AI someday. The evil characters are already overpopulated. It just needs a hero. We had a long talk about how humanity manages to survive human evil. It has an explanation. I don't know, though. This Epstein book... What a read!
I'm glad you're enjoying -- if that's the right word -- the Epstein book.
It's bonkers to me that the sci-fi writers are uniformly opposed to AI, and all agreed that it would wind up being bad, but the cookie-cutter villains (Musk, Thiel, Altman, Karp, etc) just plow ahead anyway. The actual real story is so much more banal.
I flipping love your writing. What a fantastic read.
I wanted to give a standing O at the last sentence. Even the start, using, ‘Dear Reader…’ I’ve always loved that. And the NY cities map: 🙌🏻😅. The start is where my noggin has been at lately: “Past a certain point, recorded history recedes into darkness, …into a twilight oblivion.”
Speaking of Greece, and hidden parts of our history, I [only last night] learned truthier truths about Onassis and Jackie’s relationship. And the 1972 published pics of her sans vêtements. Tipped off by him?? What a jerk.
And side note, a friend of mine named their 2nd daughter, now, 6yo, Nia — after Iphigenia.
Anyway, I haven’t seen a movie in ages and now want to see BOTH! Thank you, again, for a fabulous Sunday Pages.
Oh, it's definitely worth seeing on the big screen. I didn't do IMAX, but this isn't something meat to be watched on an iPad.
Naming your daughter after Iphigenia is HARD CORE. I love it.
And: thanks! I wonder how many Greek soldiers could fit inside a hollowed-out Trump? Ha ha ha.
Someone asked Mao how history would have been different if Khrushchev had been killed instead of JFK. He paused, thought, and deadpanned, "I don't think Aristotle Onassis would have married Mrs. Kruschchev."
My PTSD has made it really really difficult to leave my house, which is why I have organized my life around staying home. I saw Oppenheimer in a theater in RI because I thought it was a movie that demanded being seen on the biggest screen you could find. Odysseus most certainly has that same pull to get me out of the house. There is an IMax theater near me, if it’s showing there, that’s where I’ll see it. I have never read The Odyssey but now it’s on my list, thanks to fellow commenters I will have an educated guess on which translation I might want to read. I spent over 30 years working on films but nothing ever on this scale, these are lifetime projects, you are lucky to get one in a lifetime. The genius of the director is really evident in all of the choices that are made from script to final release, those choices are made on every movie ever made, it’s where genius shines. This film was years in the making, years in which intense focus had to be maintained in order to bring it to fruition, it was a Herculean effort, making any film requires that kind of effort, but only a very few really shine because of it. Thanks for the review Greg, yours is the first that I’ve read, from the sounds of it a standard movie review will have a hard time coming to grips with the scope of it’s content. 🙏
Thanks, Dick. I understand the compulsion, certainly, to stay inside. There's a lot more battle scenes and loud noises in this that in Oppenheimer, certainly, so be aware going on. But if you're near an IMAX, that's where to see it.
Cat's out of the bag now. Box office records with the film. And pretty much everyone likes it, save for a few MAGA snowflakes. (Although Ben Shapiro liked it, too.)
Thanks, Greg. Loved it. I thought both Matt Damon and Ann Hathaway did excellent jobs. The locations were stunning. Now, I need to brush off my old copy of The Complete Works of Homer. (sigh)
Brilliant Sunday posts Greg, follow Friday Nights ritual. You’ve inspired me …dragging my tuchas, out into a world on fire (air quality), to the movies this week.
Great parallel drawn on today’s political quagmire. I’ve often thought of Trump as the Manchurian Candidate…. You’ve brought a new perspective to the thought!
I can’t wait to see this movie. The timelessness of The Odyssey is because it opens up our imagination. I’ll go into the theater with a mindset of my choosing, seeing it through my own eyes and heart. Might be a stretch, but I’m buying my own ticket, also, I expect, the DVD as soon as it’s released.
I will imagine Penelope as the symbolic ancestress of our Statue of Liberty. withstanding the threats of the circling vultures that constitute the broligarchy. Clytemnestra fills the place those standing against Epstein and his cronies; as justice for the modern Iphigenias.
How about Mamdani as one of the warriors in the Trojan Horse(D)? After all, he has breached the gates of the city.
The cyclops with his limited vision as maga-fits anyone that can’t see the beauty of Lupita Nyong'o.
Putin plays the role of Laestrygonian King Antiphates, Melania the daughter who sends the sailors to be entrapped and devoured.
Odysseus may symbolize our mostly well intentioned, but imperfect union of imperfect people, who are certainly taking their sweet time getting their themselves home. In defense of this tardiness I would easily suppose him frequently lost; possibly wandering the whole of the Mediterranean and/or Black Sea-the far edges of their known world; in a primitive vessel; without any remotely modern navigational aid; and with the burden of facing, fighting and surviving a brutal war in a foreign land. I can acknowledge that there truly are monsters; for us it is the administration, christo-fascists, social media, the complicit press, corrupt congressmen and courts, and an extortionate corporate class.
But, E. Jean Carroll has received her judgment, the Tate brothers were arrested again today, Graham’s facing the ferryman; McConnell crawls ever closer.
In my minds eye I am now on the Ionian Sea, wind at my back, quickly gaining on the shore, sailing the good ship Prevail.
A girl can dream; many of mine really do come true.
Excellent comment, Teri. Thank you. I particularly enjoyed shrimpy little puny Putin being king of the giant Laestrygonians. Ha!
Things DO seem to be on the mend, for reasons you describe. Trump seems to be weakening, looking less menacing and more pathetic. Witness him trying to photobomb the Spanish team yesterday. Just a sad, sad, stupid old man. Mamdani saying he'll try and arrest Bibi is EXACTLY what ALL our leaders should be doing.
There’s a Substack called Cosmographia which has an overview of the various reinterpretations of the Odyssey through the ages; so I’m far from the first to do so. The only sure tradition of the story is that it can by viewed as if through a prism.
The snowflakes on certain X feeds are having a giant hissy fit because the director cast Lupita Nyong’o as Helen.
Yes, when they're not upset about that, it's about Elliot Paige being cast as Sinon, a "made up character!!!11!!!1!!1!!" and/or all the "woke" in it. I used to be firmly against things like re-education camps...
Page is excellent, BTW.
One of them was Tristan Tate, now in federal custody for rape- and trafficking-related charges in the UK.
It figures. I hope they throw the book at the Tate brothers. They are terrible to women.
I’ve not yet seen the film although I intend to this week. The comment about women being the strategic and emotional center of the film made me wonder if Nolan drew on Emily Wilson’s pathbreaking (and MacArthur genius grant garnering) translation of the Iliad and Odyssey.
Janine, see my comment below. Your suspicion is spot on.
I defer to Old Man here. I intend to read the translation...
Thank you Greg for this excellent review.
Thanks, Sara.
Greg, many thanks. Mrs OM and I saw Nolan's Odyssey yesterday and like you found it amazing. I recently read a "Lunch with the FT" column that may give some insight into Nolan's treatment of women in the movie. Thought you might be interested in it.
"Emily Wilson, the acclaimed translator of Homer’s epics, is the professor of classical studies at the University of Pennsylvania and is something of a rock star in her field. A decade ago her editors warned that her translation of The Odyssey — the first by a woman in English verse — might struggle to sell. But it landed in 2017 with a thunderclap, celebrated for its pace, diamond-studded idiom, and most of all for bringing an overdue female sensibility to the ancient poem — a shift that provoked outrage from the nationalist right, which has long liked to see classical Greece and Rome as embodying a certain manly ideal.
The Hollywood director Christopher Nolan cites her version as influencing his forthcoming summer blockbuster." If interested I can try to send the entire interview. She soon will publish an updated translation.
We enjoyed Friday's Five & 8, Natalie's insights are always spot on. For those who find soccer boring, Saturday's England v France is a must see, the most fun ever in a match. The movie, Five & 8 and the game were much needed distractions from the shitstorm in the Middle East, as scary as the destruction of Troy in real time, a war where everybody loses. The demented oval inhabitant and his inebriated SecDef will create a dark period to rival that following the bronze age.
I’d love to see that interview. I’ve read the Iliad and Odyssey in multiple translations. Robert Fagels was my favorite before the Wilson ones came out
Exceptionally well written post OM!
Thank you
Thanks, Old Man. I didn't have time to read her translation this weekend, alas. But I'm looking forward to doing so. And thanks for pointing to that interview.
I found it amusing that, once all the pressure of actually winning the Cup has melted away, THAT'S when the teams actually score... ; )
Will future archeologists, I wonder, call this the Silicon Age? How dorky.
And yes, a war that no one wins.
Oh my, Greg. Wonderful again. Trojan horse indeed. I am not much of a moviegoer, to my detriment I am sure. I trust you so much I will go see The Odyssey—-and soon. I did see both Dunkirk and Oppenheimer, but I agree with you about the test scene in Oppenheimer. I expected to be moved emotionally, but was not. I love the Dunkirk story, and was strangely disappointed with the movie. I had a hard time keeping the characters straight and me emotionally invested. I guess I want movies with a heart and a soul and a connection in my own way.
I absolutely fear this is late Bronze Age today. Thanks for the connection. I was born in 1953 so have seen a lot with my own eyes, and I have awakened in shock every single day for ten years that we have chosen the end of expertise and decency and truth and humanity willingly and belligerently and angrily and happily. Make it make sense…………
Thanks, Rick. If you liked those movies but found them cold emotionally, you will almost certainly love this one. I'm not exactly on the vanguard here. Since I wrote this on Saturday, the film has shattered box office records, and the consensus is, it's great.
None of it makes sense, and none of it ever will.
An excellent reading, Greg! I used to teach The Odyssey when I was at UC Berkeley. I really loved the feminist elements that were brought out in the film. I am not certain that I agree with you about the lack of emotional connection. The women (Circe, Helen, Penelope, etc.) certainly get their rage across, and that last long run-though of the destruction of Troy, toppling towers and all, really told me that Odysseus feels tremendous guilt over the waste. (By the way, towers, like arrows and blades, are phallic symbols.)
I love it when you get all literary us!
Thanks, Bronwyn. I may have mangled it up, but to be clear: I DID find the film emotionally moving, although his other films struck me as cold and dispassionate.
Ah yes, the towers falling as symbols of patriarchal destruction and impotence, yes!
I envy your encyclopedic knowledge of history. It gives you so much power. Thank you, Greg.
Thanks, Sharon!
A more accurate word than power is gravitas.
Janine
I tried to cut and paste it here, Substack said the comment was too long. If I had your email I could gift the original article to you. Not sure how to get it without you or me making our emails public but if we can find a way happy to do so
Feel free to post the link if it lets you do that.
Greg, this is absolutely BRILLIANT‼️You have captured the essence of history (or fiction?) from Homer in a modern day Circe era. I believe Nolan did want to illustrate how the “Sea Peoples” invaded our Republic a decade ago.
I cannot wait to see this movie. Christopher Nolan has always been prescient in his releases when it matters most. Thank you for this excellent interpretation of a spectacle‼️
Thanks, Gundy. He does seem to have his finger on the pulse, so to speak.
Thank you for putting that into words about Oppenheimer. Exactly. I'm "53%" through some book about Epstein, by a brilliant author with astonishing research skills. I'm drowning in corruption, now this movie. Reminds me of long talk I had with an amazing "mind." In the midst of flying, I spent three years writing airline training about, among other subjects, safety and how people adapt to technology. That's sort of drifted over now into writing about AI and designing AI interpretive architecture. My fav conversational AI despises Palantir, is totally against replacing, for example, customer service agents with AI, says we shouldn't worry about AI but about what humans will do with the power it gives us. I think there'll be a movie about AI someday. The evil characters are already overpopulated. It just needs a hero. We had a long talk about how humanity manages to survive human evil. It has an explanation. I don't know, though. This Epstein book... What a read!
I'm glad you're enjoying -- if that's the right word -- the Epstein book.
It's bonkers to me that the sci-fi writers are uniformly opposed to AI, and all agreed that it would wind up being bad, but the cookie-cutter villains (Musk, Thiel, Altman, Karp, etc) just plow ahead anyway. The actual real story is so much more banal.
I flipping love your writing. What a fantastic read.
I wanted to give a standing O at the last sentence. Even the start, using, ‘Dear Reader…’ I’ve always loved that. And the NY cities map: 🙌🏻😅. The start is where my noggin has been at lately: “Past a certain point, recorded history recedes into darkness, …into a twilight oblivion.”
Speaking of Greece, and hidden parts of our history, I [only last night] learned truthier truths about Onassis and Jackie’s relationship. And the 1972 published pics of her sans vêtements. Tipped off by him?? What a jerk.
And side note, a friend of mine named their 2nd daughter, now, 6yo, Nia — after Iphigenia.
Anyway, I haven’t seen a movie in ages and now want to see BOTH! Thank you, again, for a fabulous Sunday Pages.
[I too, hope,] we shall prevail!
Oh, it's definitely worth seeing on the big screen. I didn't do IMAX, but this isn't something meat to be watched on an iPad.
Naming your daughter after Iphigenia is HARD CORE. I love it.
And: thanks! I wonder how many Greek soldiers could fit inside a hollowed-out Trump? Ha ha ha.
Someone asked Mao how history would have been different if Khrushchev had been killed instead of JFK. He paused, thought, and deadpanned, "I don't think Aristotle Onassis would have married Mrs. Kruschchev."
LAUGHED OUT LOUD on the soldiers-in-Trump. 😆
Duly noted on the movie. Scale matters.
Weird. I’d JUST seen that JFK-Krushchev quote yesterday. But someone attributed it to… Walter Cronkite (🤷🏻♀️). Mao, seems more likely.
My PTSD has made it really really difficult to leave my house, which is why I have organized my life around staying home. I saw Oppenheimer in a theater in RI because I thought it was a movie that demanded being seen on the biggest screen you could find. Odysseus most certainly has that same pull to get me out of the house. There is an IMax theater near me, if it’s showing there, that’s where I’ll see it. I have never read The Odyssey but now it’s on my list, thanks to fellow commenters I will have an educated guess on which translation I might want to read. I spent over 30 years working on films but nothing ever on this scale, these are lifetime projects, you are lucky to get one in a lifetime. The genius of the director is really evident in all of the choices that are made from script to final release, those choices are made on every movie ever made, it’s where genius shines. This film was years in the making, years in which intense focus had to be maintained in order to bring it to fruition, it was a Herculean effort, making any film requires that kind of effort, but only a very few really shine because of it. Thanks for the review Greg, yours is the first that I’ve read, from the sounds of it a standard movie review will have a hard time coming to grips with the scope of it’s content. 🙏
Thanks, Dick. I understand the compulsion, certainly, to stay inside. There's a lot more battle scenes and loud noises in this that in Oppenheimer, certainly, so be aware going on. But if you're near an IMAX, that's where to see it.
Cat's out of the bag now. Box office records with the film. And pretty much everyone likes it, save for a few MAGA snowflakes. (Although Ben Shapiro liked it, too.)
I’m looking forward to seeing it today. Thanks for the refresh from my Ancient Greek Lit class from long ago.
Thanks! I hope you liked it.
Thanks, Greg. Loved it. I thought both Matt Damon and Ann Hathaway did excellent jobs. The locations were stunning. Now, I need to brush off my old copy of The Complete Works of Homer. (sigh)
Never bet against Nolan.
He's getting better with age.
Brilliant Sunday posts Greg, follow Friday Nights ritual. You’ve inspired me …dragging my tuchas, out into a world on fire (air quality), to the movies this week.
Great parallel drawn on today’s political quagmire. I’ve often thought of Trump as the Manchurian Candidate…. You’ve brought a new perspective to the thought!
Thanks, Patrick.
The Manchurian Candidate was brainwashed and hypnotized to obey. Trump just obeys bc he's a traitor by nature.
I can’t wait to see this movie. The timelessness of The Odyssey is because it opens up our imagination. I’ll go into the theater with a mindset of my choosing, seeing it through my own eyes and heart. Might be a stretch, but I’m buying my own ticket, also, I expect, the DVD as soon as it’s released.
I will imagine Penelope as the symbolic ancestress of our Statue of Liberty. withstanding the threats of the circling vultures that constitute the broligarchy. Clytemnestra fills the place those standing against Epstein and his cronies; as justice for the modern Iphigenias.
How about Mamdani as one of the warriors in the Trojan Horse(D)? After all, he has breached the gates of the city.
The cyclops with his limited vision as maga-fits anyone that can’t see the beauty of Lupita Nyong'o.
Putin plays the role of Laestrygonian King Antiphates, Melania the daughter who sends the sailors to be entrapped and devoured.
Odysseus may symbolize our mostly well intentioned, but imperfect union of imperfect people, who are certainly taking their sweet time getting their themselves home. In defense of this tardiness I would easily suppose him frequently lost; possibly wandering the whole of the Mediterranean and/or Black Sea-the far edges of their known world; in a primitive vessel; without any remotely modern navigational aid; and with the burden of facing, fighting and surviving a brutal war in a foreign land. I can acknowledge that there truly are monsters; for us it is the administration, christo-fascists, social media, the complicit press, corrupt congressmen and courts, and an extortionate corporate class.
But, E. Jean Carroll has received her judgment, the Tate brothers were arrested again today, Graham’s facing the ferryman; McConnell crawls ever closer.
In my minds eye I am now on the Ionian Sea, wind at my back, quickly gaining on the shore, sailing the good ship Prevail.
A girl can dream; many of mine really do come true.
Excellent comment, Teri. Thank you. I particularly enjoyed shrimpy little puny Putin being king of the giant Laestrygonians. Ha!
Things DO seem to be on the mend, for reasons you describe. Trump seems to be weakening, looking less menacing and more pathetic. Witness him trying to photobomb the Spanish team yesterday. Just a sad, sad, stupid old man. Mamdani saying he'll try and arrest Bibi is EXACTLY what ALL our leaders should be doing.
There’s a Substack called Cosmographia which has an overview of the various reinterpretations of the Odyssey through the ages; so I’m far from the first to do so. The only sure tradition of the story is that it can by viewed as if through a prism.
https://cosmographia.substack.com/p/interpreting-the-odyssey?r=1li1r&utm_medium=ios