I have seen Adam Smith’s name but have never studied his work. My wife and I, and everyone here, however, engage in moral philosophy every minute we spend on Substack.
I have 2 comments:
(1) Trying to justify slavery in economic terms is like trying to justify nuclear weapons in political terms. Fuggedaboutit. There is no justification for a moral abomination. There is no difference, in principle, between using a slave and threatening a nuclear strike and raping.
(2) Capitalism is an abomination or a likely worker’s paradise often depending purely on how it’s structured. A worker-owned company or cooperative is structured to be a paradise. Any business structured as a traditional hierarchy with a robber baron (executives) at the top or shareholders reaping the profits turns the employees into economic slaves, and only regulation prevents an even worse horror show. Communism, for example, can never be a worker’s paradise as long as there are billionaires.
Bernie gets it right. The billionaires are the problem. The only system that works is the system where there are very few degrees of separation (economically) between any of the people in an economic enterprise. As soon as you have an economic hierarchy, a top and a bottom, meaning large income differential between any 2 people in any economic structure, you have exploitation, abuse, slavery.
So it is the disparity between (a) income and (b) power of the members of any economic structure which determines if it is moral and, ultimately, if it can be sustainable. When an executive group can give itself multi-million-dollar salaries and bonuses, with no input and no veto power from others in that firm, that displays both (b) power abuse and (a) income disparity at the same time.
A shareholder system, or the partner system of a law firm, is based on power disparity (unfair distribution of power and decision-making ability). A hierarchical business model, with large disparity in wealth between top and bottom, is a recipe for exploitation and abuse of the many at the hands of the few.
The worst examples of (legal) worker abuse inside the U.S. that I have seen are Amazon and pay-by-the-mile trucking companies and railroad companies. Anyone working on a commercial boat in international waters is also at high risk of severe abuse, both financial and working conditions. And then there are the illegal operations like sweatshops, and sex shops masquerading as massage parlors. Those sex shops are everywhere, by the way, in strip malls all over this country. Hiding right out in plain sight. There’s probably one near to you.
Damn, another barn burner, which is all Greg does. Need time to digest. However, I thought that the man so described (unhandsome, with a gigantic schnozz, bulging, serial-killer eyes, and a weird, disorienting tic that manifested when he spoke), could only be transformed by the likes of Rupert’s propaganda machine. I am impressed at the transformation, proof positive that money is indeed the spark that can lead to the most grotesque interpretation of humanity’s ideas. Do what Adam Smith finally did, light a match…
Extra points for using the word "grok" in an essay on economics! Heinlein would be proud.
A major reason the unfettered "free hand" doesn't work is that the cost to a company doesn't include the cost of externalities it creates...or uses. The decision making bounds are too narrow in time and space.
An example of externality created: The long term cost of pollution on public health isn't included in their spreadsheets. The unfolding climate crisis is slower, but even more "costly".
An example of an externality being used for production: The CapEx for the infrastructure they use (e.g. roads, electric grid, fiber optics network, etc...) isn't included on their books.
Without an external force ensuring that these costs are included on the bottom line—and thus in the prices they must charge—consumers cannot truly make informed choices.
This is definitely my takeaway: "Before he died, Smith burned all of his unpublished works. Maybe the real lesson here is that if the ideas don’t work, we have to let them go."
Should I be having an existential crisis because I've never heard of Adam Smith? I'm not. He sounds important to American free market capitalists, but until one has reached a certain income/assets plateau, "free market capitalism" is just something for the Richie Riches of the world. The rest of us are just making a living, trying to contribute to people and organizations that help folks who have less, and getting through the day watching the capitalists EAT everything in their path in pursuit of the next dollar.
Good gods, am I a secret Bernie supporter? NOW I'm having an existential crisis! See you on the Five-8!
Maybe he groked that and hence remained internally private.
"All that Groks is God"
Heinlein was not one of my favorite Science "fiction" (not fantasy) authors. I first read him probably around 1958 but prefered Clarke and Asimov. I seem to recall he was the first science fiction writer to include sex in his scribblings.
I suspect we will never know for sure what Heinlein intended for the Use of the Martian word, grok. It appeared numerous times in his novel.
The usage has since continued on by others in various ways. Wikipedia has a reasonable take.
More Science fiction:
AND after two film attempts and a tv attempt
There is Frank Herberts Dune which no producer has been able to capture the greatness of Herbert's work.
Roland, i agree with your comments to my comments.
Out of interest you might want to read the Norman Solomon article in Common Dreams about "Corporate Democrats Passing the Torch" with Hakeem Jefferies replacing Pelosi.
And
He has been pretty vicious in his statements about Sanders.
I have seen Adam Smith’s name but have never studied his work. My wife and I, and everyone here, however, engage in moral philosophy every minute we spend on Substack.
I have 2 comments:
(1) Trying to justify slavery in economic terms is like trying to justify nuclear weapons in political terms. Fuggedaboutit. There is no justification for a moral abomination. There is no difference, in principle, between using a slave and threatening a nuclear strike and raping.
(2) Capitalism is an abomination or a likely worker’s paradise often depending purely on how it’s structured. A worker-owned company or cooperative is structured to be a paradise. Any business structured as a traditional hierarchy with a robber baron (executives) at the top or shareholders reaping the profits turns the employees into economic slaves, and only regulation prevents an even worse horror show. Communism, for example, can never be a worker’s paradise as long as there are billionaires.
Bernie gets it right. The billionaires are the problem. The only system that works is the system where there are very few degrees of separation (economically) between any of the people in an economic enterprise. As soon as you have an economic hierarchy, a top and a bottom, meaning large income differential between any 2 people in any economic structure, you have exploitation, abuse, slavery.
So it is the disparity between (a) income and (b) power of the members of any economic structure which determines if it is moral and, ultimately, if it can be sustainable. When an executive group can give itself multi-million-dollar salaries and bonuses, with no input and no veto power from others in that firm, that displays both (b) power abuse and (a) income disparity at the same time.
A shareholder system, or the partner system of a law firm, is based on power disparity (unfair distribution of power and decision-making ability). A hierarchical business model, with large disparity in wealth between top and bottom, is a recipe for exploitation and abuse of the many at the hands of the few.
The worst examples of (legal) worker abuse inside the U.S. that I have seen are Amazon and pay-by-the-mile trucking companies and railroad companies. Anyone working on a commercial boat in international waters is also at high risk of severe abuse, both financial and working conditions. And then there are the illegal operations like sweatshops, and sex shops masquerading as massage parlors. Those sex shops are everywhere, by the way, in strip malls all over this country. Hiding right out in plain sight. There’s probably one near to you.
Great piece Greg. I learned a new word today ~ 'grok'! Cheers.
Damn, another barn burner, which is all Greg does. Need time to digest. However, I thought that the man so described (unhandsome, with a gigantic schnozz, bulging, serial-killer eyes, and a weird, disorienting tic that manifested when he spoke), could only be transformed by the likes of Rupert’s propaganda machine. I am impressed at the transformation, proof positive that money is indeed the spark that can lead to the most grotesque interpretation of humanity’s ideas. Do what Adam Smith finally did, light a match…
Excellent post!
Extra points for using the word "grok" in an essay on economics! Heinlein would be proud.
A major reason the unfettered "free hand" doesn't work is that the cost to a company doesn't include the cost of externalities it creates...or uses. The decision making bounds are too narrow in time and space.
An example of externality created: The long term cost of pollution on public health isn't included in their spreadsheets. The unfolding climate crisis is slower, but even more "costly".
An example of an externality being used for production: The CapEx for the infrastructure they use (e.g. roads, electric grid, fiber optics network, etc...) isn't included on their books.
Without an external force ensuring that these costs are included on the bottom line—and thus in the prices they must charge—consumers cannot truly make informed choices.
This is definitely my takeaway: "Before he died, Smith burned all of his unpublished works. Maybe the real lesson here is that if the ideas don’t work, we have to let them go."
This could be applied to just about everything.
Should I be having an existential crisis because I've never heard of Adam Smith? I'm not. He sounds important to American free market capitalists, but until one has reached a certain income/assets plateau, "free market capitalism" is just something for the Richie Riches of the world. The rest of us are just making a living, trying to contribute to people and organizations that help folks who have less, and getting through the day watching the capitalists EAT everything in their path in pursuit of the next dollar.
Good gods, am I a secret Bernie supporter? NOW I'm having an existential crisis! See you on the Five-8!
Obviously Adam Smith has been abused forever.
Maybe he groked that and hence remained internally private.
"All that Groks is God"
Heinlein was not one of my favorite Science "fiction" (not fantasy) authors. I first read him probably around 1958 but prefered Clarke and Asimov. I seem to recall he was the first science fiction writer to include sex in his scribblings.
I suspect we will never know for sure what Heinlein intended for the Use of the Martian word, grok. It appeared numerous times in his novel.
The usage has since continued on by others in various ways. Wikipedia has a reasonable take.
More Science fiction:
AND after two film attempts and a tv attempt
There is Frank Herberts Dune which no producer has been able to capture the greatness of Herbert's work.
Water, God and the Law.
May your eyes turn blue.
Keep your still suit in good shape.
Roland, i agree with your comments to my comments.
Out of interest you might want to read the Norman Solomon article in Common Dreams about "Corporate Democrats Passing the Torch" with Hakeem Jefferies replacing Pelosi.
And
He has been pretty vicious in his statements about Sanders.