Some animals are the equivalent of wild beasts and in the case of Hamas, Hamas are, in fact, animals. They are devoid of any type of human quality. Rape, beheading and burning of babies, burning homes with people inside, kidnappings...not much more evidence needed.
I’m an animal rights advocate and have quotes galore since 2015. I’m now going through my 5000 memes and deleting photos to transfer quotes to my notes as I don’t use Fakebook and Twitter anymore. Downsizing 😸
I understand the desire to paint these despicable Hamas terrorists as not being human. But Humanity encompasses all the extremes of good and all the extremes of bad and everything in between. I would say they have chosen to turn their backs on decency and have chosen chaos and destruction instead. Which is also happening in one of our pollical parties and could easily happen in our own country if we allow it to fester. This choice will always result in tragedy - more broken hearts, more calls for revenge - solving nothing.
Gail, I agree. There is a series on Masterpiece called Line of Separation. I highly recommend viewing as the comparison to what is in progress is very real. When other countries decide the fait if others, you get things like the Berlin wall and the 49th parallel in Korea.
We live that fact daily as members of this nation!
Being a strong supporter of a Palestine state (not the empty words we’ve heard uttered from our elected leaders), nor supporting $ and arms to Israel. A seemingly wealthy nation whose authoritarian leadership is questionable. We’ve witnessed our nation complicit in genocide globally, with an economy based on the military-industrial complex. One, that Eisenhower warned us of years ago, where does humanity fit in any of this?
I must admit that I do not know enough about the long history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to pick a side or make informed comments. This is such a sensitive time filled with lots of rage and anger - it's very unsettling. Because I have no ancestral ties to either side, I feel like I am a blank slate and can see things from both sides. This is very different from how I feel about the conflicts going on in the USA. I am firmly on one side and am keenly aware of the history of how we got here.
Wow, Marlene! That was an EXCELLENT discussion. Very valuable information. Thank you. Ian Bremmer provides evidence of the absolute devastation that misinformation on social media can cause. And such cogent and relevant potential solutions to this very old conflict. This situation is moving so fast that it's hard to get a handle on exactly what is happening. I have hope for the solution that will help everyone involved -sooner than later.
The two sides to this, and most importantly any conflicts, are that of the oppressed and the oppressors. I’ve seen far too much having once worked for the oppressor, and followed the money trail left behind!
Clint Smith, in a recent interview about his book, How the Word is Passed, said, “But again, part of what I learned in this journey is that for so many people, history is not about primary source documents or empirical evidence. It’s a story that they’re told, and it’s a story that they tell. It’s an heirloom that’s passed down across generations. It’s something where loyalty to an idea, to a family, to a community, to a sense of self, takes precedence over truth.” When I think about our current conflicts, from our personal relationships to world wars, that makes more sense to me. How else can we explain such confounding, misguided hate and the actions that flow from it?
That's a great quote, Barbara; thanks for sharing.
It reminds me of the great Ambrose Bierce line: "History is an account mostly false of events mostly unimportant, brought about by rulers mostly knaves, and soldiers mostly fools."
Being the daughter of now ( gratefully) deceased parents who were victims of the Holocaust, I feel I am living their horror. The only difference is that i feel not only extreme sadness for Jews here and abroad but for innocent Palestinians. The majority of Israelis always wanted peace but what got in the way has been the greed of ultra religious MEN. To me, they are the fascists in our country. Yes, I said fascists because they are thrilled that Netanyahu is bulldozing Gaza. These zealots are now fighting in he West Bank, pushing Palestinians out of their homes! When does the greed end? When will humanity and decency take hold? Hamas wants to destroy Jews but Bibi wants to destroy not only Hamas and the Palestinians. Bibi is not better than Putin. Both should be brought up for war crimes. Reasonable women from all sides must prevail. WOMEN!
Marlene I was unable to find it again and it was so good. A doctor who is a woman told NPR that she is helping in the hospital and the conditions are horrific. The Israelis are killing anyone who steps outside the hospital including doctors. She said she is not a political person and is just there to help. People in the hospital are being abandoned including babies. I just wanted to post your response on Facebook, so people know that this isn't the will of the Israeli people.
And Bibi is doing all of this, I think, just to stay in power. "All of this" could wind up being another world war.
The body of evidence of men being in charge of things doesn't really make a compelling a case for the continuation of the patriarchy. At least Israel has had a woman prime minister. Here, we are still waiting.
So true, Greg. Had Hillary been elected, we would not be in this predicament. We can thank Putin for his meddling. Would love to get rid of the electoral vote but things currently, look like we may lose the Senate. Although, we do have a year…
In the meantime, I am forwarding this brilliant interview of Ian Bremmer to you about Gaza and Israel. I learned a lot and the young gentleman who interviewed him asked the absolute best questions.
I would have hoped that by now we would have had a female president, and Kamala Harris is a step in that direction, but still not the ultimate goal. I would LOVE to see major countries run by women, and just see what happens. There is no longer any compelling case to be made that the people with penises (peni?) are the ones to lead others. They seem to get wrapped up in their own power, their own corruptions, and their own hubris. And then, we elect them AGAIN! It's ridiculous and self-defeating, and we're still in a world where the majority of people believe that men have all the answers.
It still blows my mind that women were denied the right to vote until 1920. And it wasn't until the 1960s that things started to approach being ok on Election Day. As Lukas Mattson says in Succession, the US has a democracy that's as old as Botswana's.
Thank you so much for supporting Israel. Like today's guest, I, too, was there for the breakout of the war. And just as she said, there's a tremendous sense of pitching in. Former divisions amongst ourselves are falling away. Members of the Ultra-Orthodox community are joining the army and volunteering on farms. If the whole world is turning against us, we only have each other. So, thank you, Greg, for being an ally.
Thank you, Kressel, for sharing your experience here. It is heartening to hear about the galvanization of the Israeli people. The world seems already to have forgotten that Israel was the victim of a heinous, horrific terrorist attack. I'm going to keep coming back to that.
Also, if you do another podcast on Israel, would you consider highlighting the life, work and death of Haim Katsman, scholar and peace activist who was killed in the massacre of October 7th? His mother, Hannah Katsman, has spoken to journalists before and has her own blog, so she probably wouldn't be hard to contact.
Those last three sentences started a whirlwind in my mind. Yes, it’s human nature to want to make sense of complex issues and just go on with life. That I can easily relate to. But there’s so much about human behavior that’s mind boggling. Is it human nature to get so caught up emotionally in a cause or tribal mindset that you hate a whole race of people? Or love a low-life political leader? Or slaughter innocent people? Human nature must include the possibility of aberrant behavior, because humans do those things. She’s right in saying we can’t just move on and not trouble ourselves any further, but I can’t dwell on it 24/7, either. It’s human nature to want to retain one’s sanity when one can’t see any way to personally make a difference in the chaos.
Thanks, Earl. Human nature is a puzzling, mind-boggling thing. I will never understand it.
Later in the interview, Elisa cites a Torah passage that says -- and I'm paraphrasing -- that we as human beings are not responsible for saving the world, but we have to at least try to do our part for good. No one is absolved of responsibility. But taking pauses, breaks -- this is necessary to keep it up and be vigilant.
Best piece I read on this terrible situation. Too many people think they are experts when clearly they are not. Thank you as I will be sharing with quite a few people.
Thank you, Sandra. I'm not an expert, either, but it's important in times like these to really listen and take it all in. I have been trying to learn as much as I can and report back.
Thank you, Greg, for having Ms. Albert as your guest on Prevail. I look forward to listening to her thoughts. Just those first few lines of her open letter were very impressive.
Nov 10, 2023·edited Nov 10, 2023Liked by Greg Olear
This war has brought out the ignorant labelers by the legion. For the kids howling Hamas like slogans at rallies, they didn't grow up with the horrors of the Holocaust dogging their daily lives, as we did with friends whose close relatives died or survived with horrors that could barely be spoken. It is all "ancient history" to them. I doubt that many are actually "Anti-Semitic" in any classical sense. They are mostly big on underdogs and, frankly, somewhat inured to terrorist attacks happening all over the world, as many or perhaps more than school shootings here. They also have completely misunderstood post-colonial theory, which as many point out simply doesn't apply to the current situation. That doesn't mean that such a theory (including Critical Race Theory, a cousin) is some sort of anti-democratic plot that should be banned from discussion anywhere. It means that those arguing it in this case are ignorant of what it actually tries to do
As you have noted, labeling anyone who opposes Bibi's policies as Anti-Semitic also shows an ignorance incapable of understanding the complexities of what has been going on since 1948 in the Middle East.
Before the Hamas attack, public opinion here and in Israel was VASTLY opposed to Netanyahu and no one claimed the opponents were Anti-Semitic.
Suppose some immigrant or other minority group in Hungary launched a similar terrorist attack on small towns in Hungary and Orban bombed all their communities to rubble to eliminate the threat. Would there be ANY sympathy for his government? Would whatever the Hapsburgs did in Hungary justify it?
The human shields argument is wearing thin. Can one claim that of those heading south as per instruction and being bombed anyway? Or bombing ambulances because some injured Hamas member--even if not one of the active terrorists--might have been in one? If Timothy McVeigh had had a bunch of like minded people holed up in a US apartment building, would we have been justified in bombing that building on the grounds that the residents were being used as human shields and McVeigh was an "animal?"
It boils down to what constitutes defense and what constitutes revenge. Israel's government isn't making that distinction very clear. But it has never been under Netanyahu what one could really claim to be a democratic government.
Thanks for this, Susan. The protests in the U.S. have continued, and they are getting uglier. It feels like an op to me...not that the protestors aren't sincere, just that the chaos agents, by now, are really good at infiltrating, subverting, and radicalizing groups of generally naive, idealistic young people.
Bibi needs to resign. I don't think there's any hope for any good outcome as long as he is PM.
Interesting thought. Has anyone actually identified the on-line influences on those protests and whether they came from the IRA or a bunch of trolls in Macedonia or whatever?
I agree with every syllable. I have to say that my biggest fear, as Bebe and his crony supporters attempted to turn Israel into the kind of country that chump wants us to be, was that Israel would become the bully on the playground. Wonder if others in the area thought that too. In any case there are no heroes to be found, even with a microscope. Bebe has gone a long way toward decreasing the good will toward Israel after WW2. Since Israel was carved out of areas that had previously been homes of others, seems that anger should have been supplanted by more cooperation after a period of calm. Bebe did the opposite. Rubbing salt in festering wounds never improves things.
Bibi sidled up to the far right in order to stay in power and avoid the consequences of his corruption. He empowered Hamas because he didn't want any resolution to the conflict. The sooner he resigns, or is expelled, the better.
Nov 11, 2023·edited Nov 11, 2023Liked by Greg Olear
My heart is broken for the festival goers, their families, and the Kibbutz communities; and my anger is for Hamas and the blundering Bibi, who apparently was unprepared; his bombing strategy seemed premature. Why weren’t hostage negotiations started immediately? Maybe they were, but instead of focusing on the atrocities of Hamas the world was instead, forced to see a bombed Gaza. I checked on some Jewish friends to see if they had relatives affected & they had been to a wedding in downtown Chicago & encountered PLO protesters outside. The month of October I went & talked to two Muslim doctors for various infirmaties. I sensed their fear & pain & possibly anger. I felt similar conflicting emotional feelings like I did after 9/11 & it’s dividing America again. If you have young adult children of voting age talk to them. Biden is their only answer; but not if Putin can help it.
I have finally concluded, for myself, that the Israel/Hamas war is something that I still don't understand because I haven't made the time to try to understand something that's been in existence long before I was even born. I don't mean that in a dismissive way, just that my contributions to anything meaningful in discussions about it would be from a place of mostly ignorance. We have enough ignorance in the U.S. posing as "opinion" or even "expertise," that I'm not contributing to that. I can, and do, read articles, and listen to NPR most often about the conflict, but that's like saying I know ALL about the Byzantine Empire because I read "Empress." I don't. I can get ideas and some opinions formed, but I'll never really understand the complicated issues that surround this war.
I also don't understand the antisemitism. I mean, AT ALL. Is it based on long-running, dumbass conspiracy theories? Is it because the Jews "killed Christ?" Are people just jealous that God made the Jews his chosen people? Because they're "good bankers?" Because they "run the world?" Or is it just because people with these views are as ignorant of Jewish people as I am about the war, and simply won't admit it? Not to belabor the obvious, but it's all so much bullshit! Rodney King had it right when he said, "Can't we all just get along?" Indeed. How WONDERFUL would the world be if we all just did that?
PS: Great show last night, Greg! You MUST rewatch "Vertigo," and see it for the absolute subversive perversion it is! It's so very pathological! In 1958!! It's truly astonishing what Hitchcock got away with in that one, and no bullshitty "Norman was a transvestite" ending!
Thanks, Steve. That piece in Tablet is fascinating.
I think the antisemitism is old, old, old stuff. There is all the hatred from the Church Fathers. There is the fact that Christians were prohibited from lending money at interest -- usury -- until fairly recently, and so all such activity was outsourced to the local Jewish communities -- not because of some inherent talent, but simply because they were not prohibited from serving that function. What would happen is, some medieval king -- Philip IV of France, say -- would rack up a huge debt, and instead of paying it back, cook up some excuse to launch a pogrom on trumped up charges, killing and/or exiling the Jews, in effect stealing the money. (Philip IV also exterminated the Knights Templar on October 13, 13whateveritwas, which is where the Friday the 13th superstition originates). The blood libel dates to just after Hastings, and originated in England, concocted by a guy who, if alive now, would be QAnon to the max. And on it goes. Jews were blamed because they were a convenient scapegoat, similar to Romani; most countries had a small Jewish population, and that population had little power. It was vile then, and it's vile now, when we should know better.
I don't know enough about it, either -- most people don't -- but now I have to learn as much as I can, and share what I've learned. But you DO know all about the Byzantine Empire! ; )
I tried to watch VERTIGO last night but found that, incredibly, I could not find it anywhere. I could not even rent it on Amazon! I shall have to buy the DVD, I suppose...the end of PSYCHO ruins an otherwise great film. Anthony Perkins is so so so good in it.
I heard that October 7 was also Putin’s birthday. Happy birthday Vlad. The Middle East is ablaze with hate, the U S is almost paralyzed by a republicans House that won’t do it’s damn job of passing a damn budget and Ukraine is holding on by it’s fingernails. Putin is having a very happy day. Oh yes, and Project 2025 is looking like it might become reality here. Now, it everyone happy?
Thank you as always Greg. You put into clear words what is going on.
Thanks, Helen.
“I do not know whether Hamas operatives should be called “animals,” but they have undoubtedly lost their humanity.“
Animals are reliable, many full of love, true in their affections, predictable in their actions, grateful and loyal.
Difficult standards for people to live up to. - Alfred A. Montapert
Some animals are the equivalent of wild beasts and in the case of Hamas, Hamas are, in fact, animals. They are devoid of any type of human quality. Rape, beheading and burning of babies, burning homes with people inside, kidnappings...not much more evidence needed.
Only humans “rape, beheading and burning of babies, burning homes with people inside, kidnappings.” Animals don’t.
When humans act with cruelty we characterize them as ‘animals’. Yet the only animal that displays cruelty is humanity. - A.D. Williams ✍🏻
Ain’t that the truth. Humans are purposefully cruel in ways that animals aren’t, in my opinion, and I have cats.
Animals kill for need. Human animals kill for greed.
Did you just make that up? It's perfect!
I’m an animal rights advocate and have quotes galore since 2015. I’m now going through my 5000 memes and deleting photos to transfer quotes to my notes as I don’t use Fakebook and Twitter anymore. Downsizing 😸
Exactly, my new mantra
As you see, my quotes are endless.
It is just like man’s vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions. 😻
- Mark Twain on #Speciesism
Excellent quote!
I understand the desire to paint these despicable Hamas terrorists as not being human. But Humanity encompasses all the extremes of good and all the extremes of bad and everything in between. I would say they have chosen to turn their backs on decency and have chosen chaos and destruction instead. Which is also happening in one of our pollical parties and could easily happen in our own country if we allow it to fester. This choice will always result in tragedy - more broken hearts, more calls for revenge - solving nothing.
Gail, I agree. There is a series on Masterpiece called Line of Separation. I highly recommend viewing as the comparison to what is in progress is very real. When other countries decide the fait if others, you get things like the Berlin wall and the 49th parallel in Korea.
Thanks for the recommendation of Line of Separation.
Agreed Gail!
Man’s inhumanity to man is horrific!
We live that fact daily as members of this nation!
Being a strong supporter of a Palestine state (not the empty words we’ve heard uttered from our elected leaders), nor supporting $ and arms to Israel. A seemingly wealthy nation whose authoritarian leadership is questionable. We’ve witnessed our nation complicit in genocide globally, with an economy based on the military-industrial complex. One, that Eisenhower warned us of years ago, where does humanity fit in any of this?
I must admit that I do not know enough about the long history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to pick a side or make informed comments. This is such a sensitive time filled with lots of rage and anger - it's very unsettling. Because I have no ancestral ties to either side, I feel like I am a blank slate and can see things from both sides. This is very different from how I feel about the conflicts going on in the USA. I am firmly on one side and am keenly aware of the history of how we got here.
I just posted, to Greg, down below, a wonderful interview that really explains the centuries long conflict. It’s long but very important.
https://youtu.be/K5tcwIicICg?si=fUym-kZvKKE2ya8i
Wow, Marlene! That was an EXCELLENT discussion. Very valuable information. Thank you. Ian Bremmer provides evidence of the absolute devastation that misinformation on social media can cause. And such cogent and relevant potential solutions to this very old conflict. This situation is moving so fast that it's hard to get a handle on exactly what is happening. I have hope for the solution that will help everyone involved -sooner than later.
The two sides to this, and most importantly any conflicts, are that of the oppressed and the oppressors. I’ve seen far too much having once worked for the oppressor, and followed the money trail left behind!
Well said, Gail.
Clint Smith, in a recent interview about his book, How the Word is Passed, said, “But again, part of what I learned in this journey is that for so many people, history is not about primary source documents or empirical evidence. It’s a story that they’re told, and it’s a story that they tell. It’s an heirloom that’s passed down across generations. It’s something where loyalty to an idea, to a family, to a community, to a sense of self, takes precedence over truth.” When I think about our current conflicts, from our personal relationships to world wars, that makes more sense to me. How else can we explain such confounding, misguided hate and the actions that flow from it?
I agree with Clint Smith's analysis, Barbara. Thanks for sharing.
That's a great quote, Barbara; thanks for sharing.
It reminds me of the great Ambrose Bierce line: "History is an account mostly false of events mostly unimportant, brought about by rulers mostly knaves, and soldiers mostly fools."
Being the daughter of now ( gratefully) deceased parents who were victims of the Holocaust, I feel I am living their horror. The only difference is that i feel not only extreme sadness for Jews here and abroad but for innocent Palestinians. The majority of Israelis always wanted peace but what got in the way has been the greed of ultra religious MEN. To me, they are the fascists in our country. Yes, I said fascists because they are thrilled that Netanyahu is bulldozing Gaza. These zealots are now fighting in he West Bank, pushing Palestinians out of their homes! When does the greed end? When will humanity and decency take hold? Hamas wants to destroy Jews but Bibi wants to destroy not only Hamas and the Palestinians. Bibi is not better than Putin. Both should be brought up for war crimes. Reasonable women from all sides must prevail. WOMEN!
Marlene, this is exactly how feel. Thank you for your truth.
Marlene is there anyway to use what you have written. You have expressed what I have felt from the beginning but could not express like you have.
Please feel free to use whatever you want.
Thank you
Marlene I was unable to find it again and it was so good. A doctor who is a woman told NPR that she is helping in the hospital and the conditions are horrific. The Israelis are killing anyone who steps outside the hospital including doctors. She said she is not a political person and is just there to help. People in the hospital are being abandoned including babies. I just wanted to post your response on Facebook, so people know that this isn't the will of the Israeli people.
I so hear you, Marlene. Thank you for keeping your voice "out there" among us.
❤️
Putin is the happiest man alive right now.
And Bibi is doing all of this, I think, just to stay in power. "All of this" could wind up being another world war.
The body of evidence of men being in charge of things doesn't really make a compelling a case for the continuation of the patriarchy. At least Israel has had a woman prime minister. Here, we are still waiting.
Thanks for this insight, Marlene.
So true, Greg. Had Hillary been elected, we would not be in this predicament. We can thank Putin for his meddling. Would love to get rid of the electoral vote but things currently, look like we may lose the Senate. Although, we do have a year…
In the meantime, I am forwarding this brilliant interview of Ian Bremmer to you about Gaza and Israel. I learned a lot and the young gentleman who interviewed him asked the absolute best questions.
https://youtu.be/K5tcwIicICg?si=fUym-kZvKKE2ya8i
Thank you!
I would have hoped that by now we would have had a female president, and Kamala Harris is a step in that direction, but still not the ultimate goal. I would LOVE to see major countries run by women, and just see what happens. There is no longer any compelling case to be made that the people with penises (peni?) are the ones to lead others. They seem to get wrapped up in their own power, their own corruptions, and their own hubris. And then, we elect them AGAIN! It's ridiculous and self-defeating, and we're still in a world where the majority of people believe that men have all the answers.
It still blows my mind that women were denied the right to vote until 1920. And it wasn't until the 1960s that things started to approach being ok on Election Day. As Lukas Mattson says in Succession, the US has a democracy that's as old as Botswana's.
Thank you so much for supporting Israel. Like today's guest, I, too, was there for the breakout of the war. And just as she said, there's a tremendous sense of pitching in. Former divisions amongst ourselves are falling away. Members of the Ultra-Orthodox community are joining the army and volunteering on farms. If the whole world is turning against us, we only have each other. So, thank you, Greg, for being an ally.
Thank you, Kressel, for sharing your experience here. It is heartening to hear about the galvanization of the Israeli people. The world seems already to have forgotten that Israel was the victim of a heinous, horrific terrorist attack. I'm going to keep coming back to that.
I don't speak for the Jewish people, but I'm sure most would feel as gratified as I do. Here's one effort I got involved with while there:
https://youtu.be/ccVBciFwgak?si=tsxR9BO1QZW2XK36
Also, if you do another podcast on Israel, would you consider highlighting the life, work and death of Haim Katsman, scholar and peace activist who was killed in the massacre of October 7th? His mother, Hannah Katsman, has spoken to journalists before and has her own blog, so she probably wouldn't be hard to contact.
Those last three sentences started a whirlwind in my mind. Yes, it’s human nature to want to make sense of complex issues and just go on with life. That I can easily relate to. But there’s so much about human behavior that’s mind boggling. Is it human nature to get so caught up emotionally in a cause or tribal mindset that you hate a whole race of people? Or love a low-life political leader? Or slaughter innocent people? Human nature must include the possibility of aberrant behavior, because humans do those things. She’s right in saying we can’t just move on and not trouble ourselves any further, but I can’t dwell on it 24/7, either. It’s human nature to want to retain one’s sanity when one can’t see any way to personally make a difference in the chaos.
Well written and oh so true.
Thanks, Earl. Human nature is a puzzling, mind-boggling thing. I will never understand it.
Later in the interview, Elisa cites a Torah passage that says -- and I'm paraphrasing -- that we as human beings are not responsible for saving the world, but we have to at least try to do our part for good. No one is absolved of responsibility. But taking pauses, breaks -- this is necessary to keep it up and be vigilant.
Best piece I read on this terrible situation. Too many people think they are experts when clearly they are not. Thank you as I will be sharing with quite a few people.
Thank you, Sandra. I'm not an expert, either, but it's important in times like these to really listen and take it all in. I have been trying to learn as much as I can and report back.
Thank you, Greg, for having Ms. Albert as your guest on Prevail. I look forward to listening to her thoughts. Just those first few lines of her open letter were very impressive.
Thanks, Lynell.
This war has brought out the ignorant labelers by the legion. For the kids howling Hamas like slogans at rallies, they didn't grow up with the horrors of the Holocaust dogging their daily lives, as we did with friends whose close relatives died or survived with horrors that could barely be spoken. It is all "ancient history" to them. I doubt that many are actually "Anti-Semitic" in any classical sense. They are mostly big on underdogs and, frankly, somewhat inured to terrorist attacks happening all over the world, as many or perhaps more than school shootings here. They also have completely misunderstood post-colonial theory, which as many point out simply doesn't apply to the current situation. That doesn't mean that such a theory (including Critical Race Theory, a cousin) is some sort of anti-democratic plot that should be banned from discussion anywhere. It means that those arguing it in this case are ignorant of what it actually tries to do
As you have noted, labeling anyone who opposes Bibi's policies as Anti-Semitic also shows an ignorance incapable of understanding the complexities of what has been going on since 1948 in the Middle East.
Before the Hamas attack, public opinion here and in Israel was VASTLY opposed to Netanyahu and no one claimed the opponents were Anti-Semitic.
Suppose some immigrant or other minority group in Hungary launched a similar terrorist attack on small towns in Hungary and Orban bombed all their communities to rubble to eliminate the threat. Would there be ANY sympathy for his government? Would whatever the Hapsburgs did in Hungary justify it?
The human shields argument is wearing thin. Can one claim that of those heading south as per instruction and being bombed anyway? Or bombing ambulances because some injured Hamas member--even if not one of the active terrorists--might have been in one? If Timothy McVeigh had had a bunch of like minded people holed up in a US apartment building, would we have been justified in bombing that building on the grounds that the residents were being used as human shields and McVeigh was an "animal?"
It boils down to what constitutes defense and what constitutes revenge. Israel's government isn't making that distinction very clear. But it has never been under Netanyahu what one could really claim to be a democratic government.
Thanks for this, Susan. The protests in the U.S. have continued, and they are getting uglier. It feels like an op to me...not that the protestors aren't sincere, just that the chaos agents, by now, are really good at infiltrating, subverting, and radicalizing groups of generally naive, idealistic young people.
Bibi needs to resign. I don't think there's any hope for any good outcome as long as he is PM.
Interesting thought. Has anyone actually identified the on-line influences on those protests and whether they came from the IRA or a bunch of trolls in Macedonia or whatever?
Not that I know of.
I agree with every syllable. I have to say that my biggest fear, as Bebe and his crony supporters attempted to turn Israel into the kind of country that chump wants us to be, was that Israel would become the bully on the playground. Wonder if others in the area thought that too. In any case there are no heroes to be found, even with a microscope. Bebe has gone a long way toward decreasing the good will toward Israel after WW2. Since Israel was carved out of areas that had previously been homes of others, seems that anger should have been supplanted by more cooperation after a period of calm. Bebe did the opposite. Rubbing salt in festering wounds never improves things.
Bibi sidled up to the far right in order to stay in power and avoid the consequences of his corruption. He empowered Hamas because he didn't want any resolution to the conflict. The sooner he resigns, or is expelled, the better.
When he and chump cozied up, I puked.
My heart is broken for the festival goers, their families, and the Kibbutz communities; and my anger is for Hamas and the blundering Bibi, who apparently was unprepared; his bombing strategy seemed premature. Why weren’t hostage negotiations started immediately? Maybe they were, but instead of focusing on the atrocities of Hamas the world was instead, forced to see a bombed Gaza. I checked on some Jewish friends to see if they had relatives affected & they had been to a wedding in downtown Chicago & encountered PLO protesters outside. The month of October I went & talked to two Muslim doctors for various infirmaties. I sensed their fear & pain & possibly anger. I felt similar conflicting emotional feelings like I did after 9/11 & it’s dividing America again. If you have young adult children of voting age talk to them. Biden is their only answer; but not if Putin can help it.
Heartbreaking is the right word for it. The line from the Auden poem, written on Sept 1, 1939: "We must love one another or die."
After reading Elisa's essay on Tablet, I was drawn to another link there called, "Snowflakes for Hamas," which I think is a very powerful indictment, in the same vein as Elisa's piece: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/snowflakes-hamas
I have finally concluded, for myself, that the Israel/Hamas war is something that I still don't understand because I haven't made the time to try to understand something that's been in existence long before I was even born. I don't mean that in a dismissive way, just that my contributions to anything meaningful in discussions about it would be from a place of mostly ignorance. We have enough ignorance in the U.S. posing as "opinion" or even "expertise," that I'm not contributing to that. I can, and do, read articles, and listen to NPR most often about the conflict, but that's like saying I know ALL about the Byzantine Empire because I read "Empress." I don't. I can get ideas and some opinions formed, but I'll never really understand the complicated issues that surround this war.
I also don't understand the antisemitism. I mean, AT ALL. Is it based on long-running, dumbass conspiracy theories? Is it because the Jews "killed Christ?" Are people just jealous that God made the Jews his chosen people? Because they're "good bankers?" Because they "run the world?" Or is it just because people with these views are as ignorant of Jewish people as I am about the war, and simply won't admit it? Not to belabor the obvious, but it's all so much bullshit! Rodney King had it right when he said, "Can't we all just get along?" Indeed. How WONDERFUL would the world be if we all just did that?
PS: Great show last night, Greg! You MUST rewatch "Vertigo," and see it for the absolute subversive perversion it is! It's so very pathological! In 1958!! It's truly astonishing what Hitchcock got away with in that one, and no bullshitty "Norman was a transvestite" ending!
Thanks, Steve. That piece in Tablet is fascinating.
I think the antisemitism is old, old, old stuff. There is all the hatred from the Church Fathers. There is the fact that Christians were prohibited from lending money at interest -- usury -- until fairly recently, and so all such activity was outsourced to the local Jewish communities -- not because of some inherent talent, but simply because they were not prohibited from serving that function. What would happen is, some medieval king -- Philip IV of France, say -- would rack up a huge debt, and instead of paying it back, cook up some excuse to launch a pogrom on trumped up charges, killing and/or exiling the Jews, in effect stealing the money. (Philip IV also exterminated the Knights Templar on October 13, 13whateveritwas, which is where the Friday the 13th superstition originates). The blood libel dates to just after Hastings, and originated in England, concocted by a guy who, if alive now, would be QAnon to the max. And on it goes. Jews were blamed because they were a convenient scapegoat, similar to Romani; most countries had a small Jewish population, and that population had little power. It was vile then, and it's vile now, when we should know better.
I don't know enough about it, either -- most people don't -- but now I have to learn as much as I can, and share what I've learned. But you DO know all about the Byzantine Empire! ; )
I tried to watch VERTIGO last night but found that, incredibly, I could not find it anywhere. I could not even rent it on Amazon! I shall have to buy the DVD, I suppose...the end of PSYCHO ruins an otherwise great film. Anthony Perkins is so so so good in it.
I know as much about the Byzantine as I expect I ever will, anyway. lol
Thanks, Greg!
I heard that October 7 was also Putin’s birthday. Happy birthday Vlad. The Middle East is ablaze with hate, the U S is almost paralyzed by a republicans House that won’t do it’s damn job of passing a damn budget and Ukraine is holding on by it’s fingernails. Putin is having a very happy day. Oh yes, and Project 2025 is looking like it might become reality here. Now, it everyone happy?