Uh-Oh, Canada (with Max Fawcett)
Is Pierre Poilievre a fascist?
A showdown looms. The incumbent, a champion of liberal democracy, has been in power for years and in politics for decades. His opponent is an upstart conservative who worships at the altar of Ronald Reagan, plays fast and loose with the truth, and has a notoriously prickly personality.
He’s “this very aggressive pipsqueak,” says Max Fawcett, my guest on today’s PREVAIL podcast. “He’s just like, you know, a dog who’s having its hair rubbed the wrong way all the time—that’s his effect on a lot of people. He’s very nasal, he’s very, kind of, obnoxious. . . . [He’s] innately unlikeable.”
That’s a spot-on description of Ron DeSantis. But Fawcett, who is the lead columnist for Canada’s National Observer, is talking about Pierre Poilievre, head of the Conservative Party of Canada and leader of the Official Opposition.
Since taking that job from the hapless Candice Bergen last year, Poilievre has, despite his glaring deficiencies, proved himself a capable politician. And if Justin Trudeau, who has been Prime Minister since the last days of the Obama Administration, has not completely worn out his welcome in Ottawa, he is certainly in a weaker position than he was when Ivanka Trump gazed lovingly at him. Not only that, but there is what Fawcett calls “a sort of Trudeau Industrial Complex” among Canadian conservatives, similar to the weaponized vitriol spewed at Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama by the American right. “People just love to hate him.”
From where I sit, Poilievre looks like the first viable challenger Trudeau has ever faced. Will he be the next Prime Minister? And if so, how bad is he? How worried should we be? I asked Fawcett point blank: Is Poilievre a fascist?
“The funny thing about Poilievre is that, I think that if you gave him truth serum, he’s way more progressive than his followers would like to understand,” Fawcett says. He is “in his own beliefs a pro-choice guy. . . . You certainly can’t accuse him of being racist, because he’s not. He’s very pro-immigration . . . . I see liberals here trying to stick him with the ‘Trump’ label, and I just don’t think it’s a good fit, because he kind of defies those easy characterizations. I mean, he’s adopted. His birth father is a gay man. There’s just a lot going on there that is not that sort of cookie-cutter, Trump-lite thing.”
While this is somewhat reassuring, none of those things disqualify one from being a fascist. On the contrary, being hard to characterize can help conceal strongman tendencies.
“What he is is, first of all, quite unlikeable personally,” Fawcett tells me. “Certainly anyone who’s spent time around him in Parliament seems to not have a great well of love for him. And being likeable is an important part of getting elected. And he’s a pretty conservative guy outside of the social stuff, so in terms of the size of government, in terms of the role of markets—all that stuff—he’s a Reagan-ish kind of guy, which I’m not sure is a great fit for the moment.”
Poilievre also appears to be way too comfortable lying. “The thing that troubles me the most is that he’s very willing to stretch the truth. His communication on social media, even when he’s doing speeches and things like that, he’s willing to say things that are pretty clearly not true, and he knows it,” Fawcett says. “He flirts with the sort of World Economic Forum nonsense—you know, that conspiracy theory about elites. He’s very happy to pick up the Trumpist language about the media being the enemy and things like that.” To that end, Poilievre has been courting Elon Musk to help him kneecap media outlets he doesn’t like—not a positive sign.
But an all-out strongman? “He’s not a fascist,” Fawcett assures me. “On social issues, he’s probably more progressive than a lot of Democrats in the United States. But he’s willing to corrode democratic institutions in this country in a way that I think is very dangerous. So, we’ll see.”
LISTEN TO THE PODCAST
S5 E8: Uh-Oh, Canada (with Max Fawcett)
Greg Olear is joined by Max Fawcett, the lead columnist for Canada’s National Observer and the host of the podcast “Maxed Out with Max Fawcett.” They discuss Justin Trudeau’s standing, when Canada might hold another election, opposition leader Pierre Poilievre, the state of Canadian fascism, UCP in Alberta, Alberta separatism, the Han Dong scandal, disinformation in the media, Joe Biden’s visit to Canada, and the best Canadian musicians. Plus: a new record label.
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https://twitter.com/maxfawcett
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Photo credit: Andrew Sheer. Pierre Poilievre (left) and Sheer.
Glad to have you back, Greg! You remind me of my farrier. He never writes a bill, so for some years I was paying him the same rate as when he first started trimming my horses. One day I asked him when he was going to raise his rates. He said he already did. I said, "Why didn't you tell me?" He just shrugged! A few years later, without his asking, I gave him another raise, because he is worth it. So, all around the barn to say, as far as I'm concerned, the rate you charge is still cheap at twice the price., because you are worth it!
Funny - not haha but maybe strange and not particularly relevant - but I happened to come upon a quote from Canadian PM Pierre Trudeau in a speech he made to the Washington Press Club from several years ago: "Some of our policies may be of interest to this audience; and with your permission, I should like to speak about several of them in a few minutes. But first let me say that it should not be surprising that these policies in many instances either reflect or take into account the proximity of the United States. Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly or even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt." It really sounds better than it reads! (Starting at Minute 1:20)
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1797537698
Haven't listened to the podcast yet; going over there now to have a listen.
Post-Podcast Update: I just loved your interview with Max Fawcett! What a marvelous ambassador for his country. Now that I think about it, my best trip was going to Nova Scotia on a biking tour. We covered the entire province. We found the people there polite AND very friendly!
NOT a fascist? Yes, well, Hitler didn't START with gassing the Jews. Hyperbolic yes, but things change.